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we are now live with

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mick west this is brian keating

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into the impossible podcast we will

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[Music]

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any sufficiently advanced technology is

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indistinguishable from magic

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arthur c clark center for human

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imagination or my video

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and my motto is abc always be curious

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mick how are you today where are you

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joining us from

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doing great i'm joining you from

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sacramento and uh yeah i must say that

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arthur c clarke was one of my favorite

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science fiction authors when i was

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growing up

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and i also watched him on tv a lot he

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had a tv show in britain so

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i'm a big arthur c clark fan very good i

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am honored to be the

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co-director of the arthur c clarke

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center for human imagination and arthur

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had many many sayings one of which i use

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as the title of this podcast which is

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the only way of discovering the limits

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of the possible is to venture

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a little way past them into the

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impossible

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and another one which will come up today

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undoubtedly is

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for every expert there's an equal and

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opposite expert

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and the third one which we open all of

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our regularly scheduled interviews with

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is that any sufficiently advanced

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technology

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is indistinguishable from magic and

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we're going to talk about some magical

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technology today perhaps

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that has been reported and i want to

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talk about some of the implications

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of this technology if it's true if it's

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if it's

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uh if it did actually exist and

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and some of the evidence that we have as

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a scientist i'm always of course

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interested not so much in belief but in

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evidence

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and i want to hearken back to that great

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uh

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hunter of evidence and that is carl

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sagan he was not a knight

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like like arthur c clarke was but he did

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say things such as extraordinary claims

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require extraordinary evidence now mick

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i'm a scientist i never reach into a bag

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that says

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uh you know here's the extraordinary

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evidence i don't know about you but

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first can we get a little quick

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recap for listeners in my podcast um can

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you give me a quick recap of how you

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came to

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study uh such phenomena that are

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unexplained first of all

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sure sure well i'm not a scientist i'm

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actually a former video game programmer

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which

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you might think doesn't suit me well for

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doing this type of thing

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but it's actually a lot of the the

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mathematics that i use in analyzing ufo

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videos are the exact same mathematics

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that i used uh programming video games

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because you have to do the same

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type of uh calculations to figure out

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where things are in 3d space and how you

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transform one to the other

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and the very simple physics that you do

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in video games

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is often all the physics you actually

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need to figure out certain things that

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are going on

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in ufo videos so i kind of got

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interested in uh

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ufos maybe about four years ago and

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before that i was doing a lot of

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investigation into

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various conspiracy theories one of which

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was the chemtrails conspiracy theory so

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i got really interested in

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you know tracking down where planes are

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in space and things like that and that

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just naturally translated

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into the uh the ufo realm and i

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started looking at these interesting ufo

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videos and trying to figure out what

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they were showing

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and recently there's been an upsurge in

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interest

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in all different venues i started to get

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interested in this

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courtesy of a very good friend of mine

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who's uh i call him

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you know the atomic clock eric weinstein

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because

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they say a broken clock is right twice a

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day but you know eric's been right about

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an awful lot of things and it's

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it's very hard to dismiss what he is

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interested in and so i

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i take him very seriously uh from all

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sorts of things like

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lab leaks of certain things that uh

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shall not be named currently

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uh to uh to other sorts of things that

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might be considered fringe or conspiracy

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uh he tends to be right more often than

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not and anything that interests him

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peaks his interest will certainly pique

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my interest and so um

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he's sort of more convinced than than

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i've seen him in a long time that

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there's something here

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that there's some uh something to pay

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attention to

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so that's good enough for me to at least

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pay attention to it now i'm a physicist

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i'm an experimental physicist he's a

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theoretical

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he's actually a mathematician by

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training but interested in the

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theoretical implications

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of such technology he's made statements

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on clubhouse and elsewhere that

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you know he's curious who knows about

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these phenomena

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had conversations with ryan graves on

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clubhouse and um and on and off

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who is one of the fighter pilots who's

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been interviewed by 60 minutes maybe

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he's watching maybe he's not

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uh he's a very generous individual um as

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well as alexanditrich

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who's shown a great deal of class and

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dignity and talking about this

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and i believe that these individuals who

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have provided eyewitness accounts

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are credible they're highly trained

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they're incredibly patriotic and

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motivated

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i don't think there are ill uh

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intentions here but there's certainly a

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lot of passion involved i don't want to

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talk about the

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why people are motivated to do things

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but um to what do you attribute uh this

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most recent upsurge is it this marco

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rubio you know instigated report this

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pentagon data dump

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what is contributing to it and what you

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know why now what's the nancy kerrigan

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you know kind of background on all this

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why why now why me

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well i think eric's take really is about

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uh whether smoke there's fire

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and that's really what he's looking at

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he's seeing that there's a lot of talk

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about it going on at

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relatively high levels you know we've

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recently had uh

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former president obama talk about it a

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couple of times in different situations

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and people are bringing it up

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uh i think what we're seeing is kind of

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a culmination of something that's been

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going on for a number of years

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and you can kind of trace it back to

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about four years ago with the

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publication

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of the new york times article uh titled

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uh glowing auras and black money

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which kind of revealed the existence of

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this uh this pentagon program called

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atip

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which was uh in in part uh

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supposedly studying uaps or ufos

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and it was also looking into various

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types of advanced technology like you

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know warp drives potentially

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hypothetical things and different types

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of energy sources and whatnot

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but you know this story came out and

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with that came a couple of videos that

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looked like

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uh initially there were really

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impressive videos of ufos

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and people started looking at these

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videos and it got on

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the media and that kind of started a

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feedback loop that's been going on i

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think

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for about the last four years really and

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what we're seeing now is in some ways

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a culmination of that that uh that kind

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of media tsunami of

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of interest fueling the public interest

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which fuels more interest and then

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politicians get interested in this as

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well and he just kind of has been on a

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roll

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ever since then but i don't you know

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saying that i don't think it's just

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simply

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uh an issue of the media promoting this

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and these people promoting this there's

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also very real issues that are going on

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that are kind of related to the whole uh

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phenomena you know we have a real issue

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with unidentified objects

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and you know if the navy can't identify

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something that's in their airspace

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that's a real issue so it's not like

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this

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there's nothing going on but i think we

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do perhaps have a bit of a

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conflation of two things we have all

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this media interest which is really

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driven by the idea that these might be

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aliens

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and then we have a bunch of uh real

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issues which have to do with like things

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like drones and

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unidentified airspace incursions but

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it's all kind of coming to the head and

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i'm kind of hopeful that this

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coming report might resolve a few

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questions

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and that was uh kind of slated at the

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end of the trump administration

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initiated by marco rubio and others

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talked about in a recent interview on 60

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minutes a couple weeks

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back and that had a six month fuse about

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to

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expire in june and

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that you know kind of set the wheels in

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motion at least in my mind that

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this was sort of interesting although

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i've been saying you know this might be

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kind of the last opportunity if it turns

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out to be nothing and and so

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in talking with eric on clubhouse and

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elsewhere i've been saying you know

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might this not be a case of you know

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buy the rumor sell the news if folks are

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going to get interested about it

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uh we might want to capitalize on

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attention uh for those that might have

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purposes other than the pure

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actual uh investigation of scientific

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phenomena

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yeah i think a lot of people are

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actually uh who are promoting this are

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actually already

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convinced and they're not really so much

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interested in the scientific

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investigation

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uh of are these amazing phenomena or are

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these natural phenomena they're actually

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convinced that these are

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in many cases they're convinced that

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they are aliens you know the way that

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they talk about it it's not

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human essentially and so you've got kind

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of a you know two things there you've

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got people

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trying to promote the idea that these

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are aliens and then you've got people

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trying to figure out what they actually

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are

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now in my field of astronomy we have a

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tradition

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actually called great debates these go

285
00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:48,800
back hundreds of years

286
00:08:52,470 --> 00:08:50,800
actually back to the time of copernicus

287
00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:52,480
galileo kepler etc

288
00:08:55,829 --> 00:08:54,880
continuing through 100 years ago exactly

289
00:08:57,190 --> 00:08:55,839
last year

290
00:08:58,870 --> 00:08:57,200
what was called the great debate the

291
00:09:00,790 --> 00:08:58,880
size of the universe the scope of the

292
00:09:01,670 --> 00:09:00,800
universe is the milky way the entirety

293
00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:01,680
of the universe

294
00:09:05,590 --> 00:09:03,760
was actually called the great debate

295
00:09:07,430 --> 00:09:05,600
even though it was just one of many

296
00:09:09,190 --> 00:09:07,440
and i actually feel that debate is

297
00:09:11,110 --> 00:09:09,200
almost pointless in science yeah it's

298
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:11,120
very hard to convince somebody of

299
00:09:15,350 --> 00:09:13,360
of an opinion especially as upton

300
00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:15,360
sinclair said if his or her job depends

301
00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:15,839
on it's

302
00:09:19,430 --> 00:09:18,560
not believing a fact to be true uh but i

303
00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:19,440
do believe

304
00:09:24,310 --> 00:09:22,240
that uh that the perspective of two

305
00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:24,320
different opposing sides can be valuable

306
00:09:29,350 --> 00:09:26,640
at revealing truth and for that reason

307
00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:29,360
i've had on diametrically opposed forces

308
00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:31,360
on the into the impossible podcast

309
00:09:34,470 --> 00:09:33,760
i've had on michael saylor perhaps the

310
00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:34,480
world's most

311
00:09:37,829 --> 00:09:36,880
preeminent proponent of bitcoin and

312
00:09:39,990 --> 00:09:37,839
blockchain

313
00:09:41,509 --> 00:09:40,000
technology and i've had on his arch

314
00:09:44,470 --> 00:09:41,519
nemesis peter schiff

315
00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:44,480
uh as well as other proponents of gold

316
00:09:47,509 --> 00:09:45,200
versus

317
00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:47,519
blockchain not at the same time i didn't

318
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:49,600
have them debate each other i've had on

319
00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:52,720
noam chomsky and his uh ideological

320
00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:55,200
alter ego ben shapiro i don't know

321
00:09:58,630 --> 00:09:56,480
people that have had on you know such

322
00:10:01,750 --> 00:09:58,640
diametrically opposed forces i've had on

323
00:10:02,230 --> 00:10:01,760
uh kamran vapha at harvard and i've had

324
00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:02,240
on

325
00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:04,880
uh and michio kaku the foremost

326
00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:06,640
proponents of string theory in the

327
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:07,440
universe

328
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:09,680
as i know it and i've had on as i said

329
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:12,160
eric weinstein sabine hassenfelder

330
00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:14,640
and and many other great opponents of

331
00:10:17,670 --> 00:10:16,640
string theory so i am not unaccustomed

332
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:17,680
to this and i have

333
00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:20,240
had commitments from some of the pilots

334
00:10:23,269 --> 00:10:21,519
uh who have uh

335
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:23,279
been involved in some of these tentative

336
00:10:25,350 --> 00:10:24,399
commitments i should say and i don't

337
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,360
want to say which ones

338
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:26,959
uh to come on the into the impossible

339
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:29,040
podcast and i am grateful for that

340
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:31,040
not only for their patriotism far beyond

341
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:32,560
anything i would ever show

342
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:34,720
but i do want to say that i think it's

343
00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:35,839
it's useful as

344
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:38,160
i will ask them i want to ask you for

345
00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:39,839
your perspective on their

346
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:42,079
um on their reports and for uh i'm going

347
00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:42,959
to ask them on

348
00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:45,279
their perspective on your report so some

349
00:10:48,389 --> 00:10:46,160
of the reports

350
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:48,399
that have been made and on lex

351
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:49,839
friedman's podcast who's a friend of

352
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:50,880
mine and

353
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:52,720
and has has been very vocal about these

354
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,320
things um is it

355
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:56,880
not possible that because you are not an

356
00:10:59,829 --> 00:10:57,760
expert

357
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:59,839
in uh and that fleer systems and the

358
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:01,120
paws that are installed on the

359
00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:03,360
on the on the super hornets that were

360
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:05,839
involved in the 2004 nimitz encounter

361
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:07,920
uh which was not far from where i am now

362
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:09,360
in san diego

363
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:10,800
uh you're not an expert you're not

364
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:12,480
operating this shouldn't you be

365
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:13,600
contacting

366
00:11:17,269 --> 00:11:15,120
engineers at raytheon to learn how to

367
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:17,279
use this uh isn't it possible that

368
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:18,640
you're falling into the confirmation

369
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:20,079
bias fallacy that's

370
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:22,160
really befuddled astronomer scientist

371
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,240
ever since the time of galileo up

372
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:26,480
through einstein and beyond

373
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:27,920
sure and i would love to talk to

374
00:11:31,269 --> 00:11:30,000
raytheon and i i tried to contact them a

375
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:31,279
couple of times and

376
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:32,800
got nothing other people have tried to

377
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,320
contact them on my behalf

378
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:36,399
and they've said basically well we re

379
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:37,440
refer you to the

380
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:39,200
the users of the equipment for what's

381
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:40,560
actually going on

382
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,880
uh so you know i would really like to

383
00:11:47,350 --> 00:11:45,200
talk to experts i've had people who

384
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:47,360
uh say they're experts in the the flea

385
00:11:50,069 --> 00:11:49,120
system which is not really the same

386
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,079
thing exactly but

387
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:53,279
the uh rebut me but you know essentially

388
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:53,600
it's

389
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:55,040
you know i kind of disagree with them

390
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:56,240
because i think that they're not

391
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:57,920
actually understanding my argument

392
00:12:01,110 --> 00:12:00,160
but it becomes very problematic because

393
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,120
you know here's me

394
00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:03,040
you know a former video game programmer

395
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,040
who is certainly not someone with much

396
00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:07,040
experience in in these systems

397
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:08,839
and i'm putting forward theories and

398
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,160
hypotheses and

399
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:12,880
other people who ostensibly have more

400
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,000
experience than me

401
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:16,480
say that i'm wrong but i think usually

402
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:18,160
what happens in these situations

403
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:21,200
is that they're not actually

404
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:22,639
addressing the arguments that i'm

405
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:24,399
raising which sounds kind of very

406
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:25,839
presumptuous on my part i

407
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:27,920
understand how that how that sounds but

408
00:12:31,030 --> 00:12:29,279
if you look into what we're actually

409
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,040
talking about there's one

410
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:33,360
one issue in particular that i talk

411
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,720
about quite a bit which is to do with

412
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,079
one of the videos it's the

413
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,560
the gimbal video which we can get into

414
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:40,320
later but it's a very simple thing which

415
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:40,959
is

416
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,519
uh when the the scene rotates can can

417
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,279
something that rotates the scene make

418
00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:48,240
a glare rotate uh and the people are

419
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:48,800
told me that

420
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:51,680
obviously it can't that can't happen

421
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,800
because if you're rotating the entire

422
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:54,160
scene everything is going to rotate

423
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,519
which is true

424
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:57,279
but unfortunately they were asked the

425
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:58,639
wrong question

426
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:01,600
so we get this this situation where it's

427
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:03,440
not really jeweling experts here

428
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,680
it's it's kind of people almost talking

429
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,440
across purposes like i put forward a

430
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:08,880
hypothesis and someone doesn't

431
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:10,240
understand what it was but

432
00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:11,920
they're not actually talking to me so we

433
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,680
can't we can't thrash it out so

434
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,839
i would love to talk to raytheon i would

435
00:13:19,590 --> 00:13:16,720
love to talk to our

436
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:19,600
actual engineers uh i have heard people

437
00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:20,399
who told me

438
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:22,639
that i uh i was right in various things

439
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:23,519
but they can't

440
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:26,160
talk about it because it's uh it's a

441
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:27,600
classified system

442
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:29,200
you know the app flea system you know

443
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:30,720
the video that we're looking at right

444
00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:33,120
now was taken with an atlea camera

445
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,200
uh which is a very expensive military

446
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:37,600
pod type glare effect is simply to

447
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:40,720
take uh your your camera phone and just

448
00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:43,519
kind of touch the lens on the back so

449
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:46,240
it's it it's actually it this is

450
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:47,600
actually the best footage that we have

451
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,160
available

452
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,800
from that camera we can't actually find

453
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,399
any other footage because it's a

454
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:54,079
classified system and the military does

455
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,519
not release that footage so

456
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:57,760
we've got this this opaque wall of

457
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:58,720
secrecy

458
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:01,040
beyond which i can't reach we have some

459
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:02,560
people who are a bit closer to that wall

460
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:03,839
and they can kind of look over it and we

461
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:05,120
have people on the other side

462
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,440
who can't actually talk about it at all

463
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,519
and so we've got this this big problem

464
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,040
of communication how do i get

465
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,199
how do i resolve you know whether i'm

466
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:14,800
right or wrong if no one can actually

467
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,720
talk about it

468
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:18,399
yeah and i think you know there is this

469
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:20,560
kind of deference to authority which by

470
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:22,000
the way does not have a place in the

471
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,360
scientific method

472
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:25,680
einstein was wrong no less than seven

473
00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:26,720
times at least

474
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:29,040
by my reckoning he was of course right

475
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:30,880
many more times than that and

476
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,720
i point out in my book that he deserved

477
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:34,560
probably seven nobel prizes

478
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:36,079
according to most physicists and why he

479
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:37,839
didn't win that is a tale for another

480
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:38,480
time

481
00:14:42,069 --> 00:14:40,720
uh but uh but similarly you know we

482
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:42,079
could make the same argument

483
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:44,079
for astronomers who as my friend sarah

484
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:46,160
scholes has made in her book they are

485
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,440
already here

486
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:49,440
she was on my podcast last year about

487
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:51,279
her book which focuses on tom de long

488
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:51,680
and

489
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:54,880
there

490
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:56,800
you know astronomers are also experts at

491
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,639
watching the skies and we have advanced

492
00:15:00,790 --> 00:15:00,320
technology that's not classified and in

493
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:00,800
fact

494
00:15:03,829 --> 00:15:02,560
most of the technology that goes into

495
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,839
military hardware

496
00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:05,680
has some pedigree some heritage that

497
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:08,160
traces its way to astronomical signals

498
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:09,760
for example the cosmic microwave

499
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,199
background that i study

500
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:13,519
uh was uh detected by accident

501
00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:15,040
serendipitously by two

502
00:15:18,389 --> 00:15:16,880
radio astronomers and it's a through

503
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:18,399
line directly to

504
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:20,320
the cell phone that we're using many of

505
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:22,399
our listeners are watching right now on

506
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:24,800
uh to uh the devices in our pockets to

507
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:26,079
this very day

508
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:27,839
and the technology that went into the

509
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:29,199
first ccd cameras

510
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:31,040
those are all for astronomical image

511
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:32,800
sensing astronomers are watching the

512
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,440
skies

513
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:35,519
right now around the planet any clear

514
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,720
night of the day

515
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:39,120
and we use all wavelength bands and we

516
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:40,240
don't uh have

517
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:42,480
any less of an interest in fact carl

518
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,839
sagan one of the most eminent

519
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:45,279
astronomers of all time

520
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:47,279
uh jill tarter seth shostak who will be

521
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:48,720
on the into the impossible podcast

522
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:51,120
live tomorrow thursday and you're

523
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,240
welcome all of you

524
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,560
listening out there to join in all these

525
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,079
folks have been on my podcast

526
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:58,160
we astronomers would like nothing better

527
00:16:02,150 --> 00:16:00,160
mick than if this were true if we could

528
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:02,160
have access to advanced technology

529
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,880
if we could have access to new knowledge

530
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:06,480
and new laws of physics

531
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:08,480
this i mean if you were suppressing this

532
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:10,399
mick i would be more mad than any of the

533
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:12,000
comments that that come in negatively

534
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:12,800
against you

535
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,120
so i think uh to to argue that you know

536
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:16,800
astronomers are suppressing this i think

537
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:17,920
that's that's sort of uh

538
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:19,920
laughable point now the government

539
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,360
conspiracy against it

540
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:23,519
uh you have to give them something right

541
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,880
if they're saying well the government's

542
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:26,320
not going to give you the flear because

543
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,759
it's advanced technology

544
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:29,360
i think that's a little hollow this

545
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:31,519
image was taken these images were taken

546
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:32,880
in 2004

547
00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:34,160
that probably means that raytheon

548
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:36,399
technology is over 30 years old right i

549
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:37,759
mean the flir system

550
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:39,440
itself was mounted on a pod it's not

551
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:40,880
installed on the f6

552
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:43,680
as i understand f18 this variant which

553
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,040
is the super hornet

554
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,839
as the upgrade first commis commissioned

555
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:49,199
in the 1980s

556
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:51,040
so this is not like some modern stealth

557
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:52,800
fighter right this is a pod that's

558
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,800
external to the original airframe am i

559
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:56,079
right

560
00:16:59,189 --> 00:16:57,759
yeah it fits underneath you can take it

561
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:59,199
on or off some some of the planes don't

562
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:00,480
even have it on

563
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,800
but yeah it's it's uh it's it's just a

564
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,640
camera essentially and so when we're

565
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:06,000
talking about you know what can it do or

566
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:06,319
what

567
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,520
many really

568
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:11,520
secret technological things that are

569
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,959
hidden and a lot of it was actually

570
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:14,720
described in the patterns which i read

571
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:15,199
in

572
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:21,360
of the system and how it uses these

573
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:23,679
gimbal mirrors internally to steer

574
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,280
the line of sight and how it has this

575
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:26,799
external gimbal and how they work

576
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:27,760
together

577
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:30,400
uh so it's it's not uh it's not like we

578
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:32,240
know nothing at all about it

579
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,120
but it would be good to have

580
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:35,039
confirmation again part of the problem

581
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:36,240
here is that

582
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,679
the what i'm describing is quite

583
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:39,679
complicated it was described by joe

584
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,400
rogan as

585
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,960
performing mental gymnastics which is a

586
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,480
term that kind of caught on

587
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:46,799
for describing the these theories but uh

588
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,240
you know they are complicated

589
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,320
and it is difficult to explain and so

590
00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:52,080
people then tend to

591
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:54,320
uh pick their expert and they pick which

592
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:55,120
person they want

593
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,640
to to agree with and of course like

594
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:58,240
gives a choice between me

595
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,840
and someone who you know claims to be a

596
00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:01,360
flyer technician or someone who is a

597
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,080
pilot

598
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,600
who is disagreeing with me they're going

599
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:05,360
to pick you know the pilot

600
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:07,600
and then pick the the flare technician

601
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:09,200
uh and it could be simply that they

602
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:10,880
prefer that explanation but it's also

603
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:11,840
because you know this

604
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:14,160
this other person has a bit more

605
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:16,320
perceived authority than than me

606
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:19,039
so if we have explanations that are

607
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:20,000
competing

608
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,640
and we can't actually thrash them out in

609
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,840
the public sphere

610
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:25,200
then people are going to go with

611
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,679
opinions rather than actual facts

612
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,760
but you know if someone disagrees with

613
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:32,000
me they shouldn't just say i disagree

614
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,679
with you because i'm an expert

615
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:35,440
they should say i disagree with you and

616
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:36,799
here's why and here's the exact

617
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,480
technical reason why and then we can

618
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:40,720
discuss that and figure it out

619
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,640
one of the most troubling aspects as far

620
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,039
as experts in doubting the pilots to me

621
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:47,039
as you know i fly tiny little systems

622
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,120
right uh one of the things that

623
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:52,400
um uh that that troubled me is a report

624
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,679
that was on 60 minutes

625
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:56,400
over time and the fact that 60 minutes

626
00:19:00,070 --> 00:18:57,840
didn't have any

627
00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:00,080
uh as arthur c clarke would say equal

628
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,600
and opposite experts

629
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:03,280
meaning someone like you or someone just

630
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:04,720
to counter the narrative

631
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:07,039
that it either is the conspiracy

632
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:07,919
cover-up

633
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:10,480
we have right to foia right to know or

634
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:11,360
the two pilots

635
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:14,160
uh three pilots or more perhaps or lou

636
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:15,919
i'm i'm blanking on his last name

637
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:18,080
and probably would mispronounce it i'd

638
00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:19,679
love to have him on the show as well

639
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:21,360
uh he's certainly you know a hero to

640
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:23,039
many people deservedly so

641
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,799
uh but anyway there was nobody to point

642
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,320
out you know that uh

643
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:28,480
except in 60 minutes overtime and i can

644
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:29,919
put a link to that in the chat

645
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:31,440
you know that when they came back for

646
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:33,520
for several days the pilots were kind of

647
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:34,160
mocked

648
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:36,320
they were teased you know and and i

649
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,000
pointed out to my listeners and my

650
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:40,000
channel uh last night i was chatting

651
00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:41,120
with them in in the

652
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:43,679
comment section on my channel and i said

653
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:44,400
you know

654
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,919
you can make fun of me because i'm not a

655
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,440
great pilot and i'm not gonna like

656
00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,960
criticize that or mick you know

657
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,799
and i you can say like you have no ride

658
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:52,640
keating or mick you have no right to

659
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,400
criticize this trained highly skilled

660
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:56,000
pilot fravor dietrich

661
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:58,000
these are heroes these are top guns

662
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:59,600
literally um

663
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:01,200
but these are other pilots now

664
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,880
criticizing them teasing them

665
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,720
um making fun of them like i would never

666
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,320
t you never tease a pile about an

667
00:20:09,350 --> 00:20:08,480
accident about an incident this could

668
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,360
have led to like

669
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:11,600
tragic consequences right so i'm

670
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:12,480
wondering

671
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:14,400
i can't criticize them i can't you know

672
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,840
because i'm not an expert but these are

673
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:17,200
other fighter pilots right

674
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:18,559
now people are saying well pilots would

675
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:19,919
be pilots they'll tease each other but

676
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:21,679
come on at some point

677
00:20:25,110 --> 00:20:23,600
you you have to start to say well like

678
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:25,120
you know what point do we trust the

679
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:26,559
eyewitness testimony

680
00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:28,559
and what point you know do we we have to

681
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:29,840
rely on sensor data

682
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:31,200
now there are questions in the chat room

683
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:32,720
people are asking well what about the

684
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,000
radar data is that

685
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:36,400
not reliable that's not eyewitness data

686
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:37,120
that's

687
00:20:41,350 --> 00:20:39,679
cold hard time series evidence mick what

688
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,360
do you say about that

689
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,600
uh the radar data is eyewitness data

690
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:45,039
because we don't actually have access to

691
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,919
it and we don't

692
00:20:48,950 --> 00:20:47,520
even know anybody who has access to it

693
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:48,960
now we perhaps louis elizondo is

694
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:50,960
claiming that he has seen something

695
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:53,120
but if you uh if we talk about say the

696
00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:54,880
nimitz incident which is david framers

697
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:55,760
incident

698
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,760
we have recollections about what the

699
00:21:01,270 --> 00:20:59,360
radar looked like you know what

700
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:01,280
showed up on the scope and what showed

701
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,559
up when they did replays

702
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,240
of it but we don't actually have the

703
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:06,320
data so

704
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:07,840
you know really is that is that

705
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:10,480
recollection of a radar reading any

706
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:11,919
different from an eyewitness seeing

707
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,640
something

708
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,720
in the sky you know it's additional

709
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:16,480
information but it's just an additional

710
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:17,440
eyewitness

711
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,559
uh statement we don't actually have the

712
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:22,640
corroborating data we you know if we

713
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:24,640
have the if we have a video and we had

714
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,559
like you know video of the radar screen

715
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:28,080
showing the same thing at the same time

716
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:29,120
that would be wonderful

717
00:21:32,149 --> 00:21:30,400
that would be really really good if it

718
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:32,159
showed something amazing you know just

719
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:33,440
showing you know dots in the distance

720
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:34,880
that wouldn't be that amazing

721
00:21:39,029 --> 00:21:37,280
but you know we don't actually have the

722
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:39,039
data but people talk about that all the

723
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:39,919
time we have

724
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:42,320
eyewitness accounts of seeing things in

725
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:43,200
the sky

726
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:45,840
we have eyewitness accounts of radar

727
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,400
data

728
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:48,559
and we have this this one kind of fuzzy

729
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,760
video uh

730
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:51,440
of something which doesn't actually

731
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,120
doesn't actually happen at the same time

732
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:54,960
as either the eyewitness account

733
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:57,679
or uh the the eyewitness accounts of the

734
00:22:01,590 --> 00:21:58,080
radar

735
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,600
data so um

736
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,360
now the time series data is that not

737
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,960
available to you know

738
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:06,720
foia requests or something i mean i can

739
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:09,919
imagine that you know after 17 years

740
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:12,799
might not be uh super threatening uh but

741
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,360
you know have

742
00:22:17,830 --> 00:22:15,360
is that something that you've pursued as

743
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:17,840
well nick to try to gain access to

744
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:19,520
i haven't but i know other people have

745
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:20,960
people have been trying to get this this

746
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:22,240
information out uh

747
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:25,360
here for for years uh this information

748
00:22:28,149 --> 00:22:26,000
you know if it was

749
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,159
there it's just it's just the type of

750
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,400
thing that is um

751
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:32,480
classified or not cleared for release by

752
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:34,080
default and there's just no

753
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,760
there's no reason for the military to

754
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:37,520
release it i i don't know if that would

755
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:39,200
even be uh foiable

756
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:40,799
because it's something that's you know

757
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:42,720
essentially an active operation even if

758
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:44,159
it's a training operation

759
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,600
i don't know if that would be something

760
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:47,360
that they would release i guess they

761
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:48,640
have released deck logs

762
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:52,240
uh of some incidents but they also

763
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:55,280
retract parts of those redact

764
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:57,440
uh so yeah well it'll be great if we

765
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,960
could have that and if anybody out there

766
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:00,720
has got any idea how to get it then yeah

767
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,559
let's get it but we do not have radar

768
00:23:06,310 --> 00:23:04,159
data now

769
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:06,320
uh let's see this question my cyrillic

770
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:09,280
is not that great but i think it's anton

771
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,480
spasiba anton is asking a question why

772
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:14,640
not make a collaborative research effort

773
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:14,960
with

774
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:17,679
between mick and some former ttsa

775
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:18,480
members

776
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,840
have you thought about doing that

777
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,520
reaching out to the intelligence

778
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:23,120
community

779
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,520
well ttsa uh isn't the intelligence

780
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,960
community though that's the the to the

781
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:27,919
stars academy

782
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,200
oh to the sorry i'm sorry yeah uh

783
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:33,280
which i thought it was uh transportation

784
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,669
yeah i'd be happy to collaborate with

785
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:43,200
anybody if they've got like some ideas

786
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:44,400
or information that they want to share

787
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:45,760
or they want to work over

788
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:47,200
but you know i've talked to someone that

789
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:48,720
i've talked to lou elizondo i

790
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,080
interviewed him

791
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,880
i tried to get chris mellon you know to

792
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,960
talk and i've emailed a few of the other

793
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:56,799
people and i'd be happy to talk to any

794
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,679
of them

795
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,679
but i don't think they like me and i

796
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:01,919
think part of that is because

797
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:04,159
i'm a destroyer destroyer of dreams when

798
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:06,400
it comes to ufo videos i i take these

799
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:07,679
videos and i give a

800
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:09,840
a mundane explanation of it and this

801
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:11,200
isn't my intent

802
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:12,640
i don't go in there thinking like oh

803
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:13,760
well i'm going to destroy somebody's

804
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,640
dreams today

805
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,480
i go there and look at these videos and

806
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:18,799
say what is this thing and try to figure

807
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:20,000
out what it is

808
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:22,159
and perhaps because i'm a bit more

809
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,600
obsessive and have a little bit more

810
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,000
time on my hands than other people have

811
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:28,400
i often kind of arrive at an answer and

812
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:29,760
often with the help of other people a

813
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:31,039
lot of people contribute to these

814
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:32,480
investigations

815
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:34,240
and it turns out a lot of these videos

816
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:36,240
have very mundane explanations

817
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:39,520
when ttsa uh people like elizondo and

818
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:40,000
melon

819
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:41,679
have been claiming in the past that they

820
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,760
share extraordinary things

821
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:45,440
which would be indicative of some kind

822
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:48,960
of amazing technology or even aliens

823
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,640
now getting back to the eyewitness

824
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:52,400
accounts you know which i think

825
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:55,200
uh i think it is believed that those are

826
00:24:58,230 --> 00:24:56,880
some of the more convincing

827
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,240
accounts right because you're basically

828
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,400
saying the radar data shouldn't

829
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:02,000
should count as eyewitness data right

830
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:03,200
you're saying the operators are

831
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:04,240
testifying

832
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:05,600
we don't have the raw data we don't have

833
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:07,760
the time series data as you might

834
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:11,039
expect correct yeah we don't we don't

835
00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:12,559
have data that we can actually analyze

836
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:14,080
and do some kind of reconstruction we

837
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,679
have people's recollections of it which

838
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:16,960
is certainly more than

839
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:19,360
just eyewitness uh you know eyeballs on

840
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,039
the thing we we have

841
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,760
uh actual people talking about the radar

842
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:25,679
for example when fraver went out

843
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:28,159
to see an object he was sent to a

844
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:30,559
location because there was a radar

845
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,799
return at that location and it was one

846
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:34,000
of these

847
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:35,840
in the nimitz encounter they had these

848
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,240
groups of five radar returns which were

849
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:40,080
slowly drifting down from the north to

850
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:42,080
the south which they initially thought

851
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:43,120
might be some kind of

852
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:44,720
glitch in the system they reset the

853
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:46,640
system and then it you know stayed and

854
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:47,120
they

855
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:54,240
know this is the story the recollection

856
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,200
that people give

857
00:25:59,430 --> 00:25:57,360
and then fragra went to the location and

858
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:59,440
then at approximately that location

859
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:01,600
he saw something down by the water and

860
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:03,360
that turned out to be the tic tac and

861
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:05,120
alex dietrich was was there with him and

862
00:26:09,269 --> 00:26:06,480
she saw

863
00:26:11,269 --> 00:26:09,279
something along the same lines now the

864
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:11,279
altitude and so forth i mean i'd love to

865
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,000
have on

866
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:14,159
those individuals and i'm hoping and

867
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:15,440
working to get

868
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:16,720
to to be with them but i'm trying to

869
00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:18,400
work out just the geometry of it you've

870
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:18,880
done

871
00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:21,679
yeoman's work on uh you know reproducing

872
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,400
the glare

873
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:25,039
and lens flare and ghosting the bokeh

874
00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:25,919
we'll get into that

875
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:29,679
in just a bit and uh but looking at it

876
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:29,919
in

877
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:33,600
perspective how how

878
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:35,679
would one actually approach this

879
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:37,039
literally you know flying a high

880
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:38,559
performance jet

881
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,600
low over the ocean uh tracking you know

882
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,520
during a daytime encounter

883
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:46,080
uh for an object which was reported the

884
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:46,880
size of a

885
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:50,159
of a of an f18 um

886
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:51,600
you know with no scale nothing to

887
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:53,919
compare to on a featureless ocean

888
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:56,640
surface um you know where you're flying

889
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:57,840
a supersonic

890
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,880
jet uh capable of extremely high speeds

891
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:02,559
at what's called high angle of attack so

892
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,880
the only way to fly a very fast jet very

893
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:06,799
slow as would be needed would be to make

894
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,240
it dirty which is to

895
00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:10,720
have landing gear and flaps spoilers

896
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,880
leading edge devices etcetera deployed

897
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:14,559
and then fly it at high angle of attack

898
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:16,640
or high alpha which puts the cockpit at

899
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,520
a high

900
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:19,679
um high pitch with respect to the ocean

901
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,760
so that's not really compatible

902
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,200
and i'm wondering you know people have

903
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,960
actually simulated you know what would

904
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,480
the encounter look like just from uh

905
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:28,000
just from an aviation perspective what

906
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:29,440
is the geometry

907
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,360
involved you know what did it look like

908
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:33,360
from the cockpit because it wasn't like

909
00:27:35,269 --> 00:27:34,720
you know it's imagine driving down the

910
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:35,279
freeway

911
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:36,559
and you're looking for something the

912
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,720
size of a car or two cars

913
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:40,559
and you're going the stall speed of an

914
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,640
f-18 in that configuration

915
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:44,399
which is its landing configuration still

916
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,799
about 100 knots or so

917
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:48,000
and so he'd have to be going faster than

918
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:49,440
that or he would stall and he wouldn't

919
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,720
be here god forbid

920
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:52,960
um so you're going 200 maybe 200 knots

921
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:54,960
uh 230 miles an hour

922
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:57,360
uh to stay safe and then you're still at

923
00:27:59,830 --> 00:27:58,080
a pitch up

924
00:28:02,870 --> 00:27:59,840
angle if you're not deploying your all

925
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:02,880
your drag devices so has anyone looked

926
00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:04,880
at what is the geometry involved

927
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,919
and what would it look like in the

928
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:07,520
cockpit the cockpit is not like a you

929
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,640
know glass bubble

930
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:10,480
he's got a lot of stuff in his face he's

931
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,919
got a heads-up display

932
00:28:15,269 --> 00:28:14,240
has anyone looked at that well i think

933
00:28:17,750 --> 00:28:15,279
you know the copy cut of

934
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:17,760
is the top half of it is kind of a glass

935
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:18,399
bubble and

936
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:20,320
the pilots actually sit relatively high

937
00:28:23,269 --> 00:28:21,600
because they do need to have very good

938
00:28:24,789 --> 00:28:23,279
visibility in the airspace around them

939
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:24,799
so it's not like they can't see

940
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:26,720
out of the side and the angle of attack

941
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,399
perhaps isn't so much of an issue

942
00:28:31,430 --> 00:28:30,480
at the front because when fraber says he

943
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,440
saw it at first

944
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,600
he says he looked out of the side window

945
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:35,039
and saw it

946
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,720
so he would have had a reasonable view

947
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:38,080
of the ocean and i think

948
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,600
even if you're going at 200 to 300 knots

949
00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:43,360
we're looking down at the ocean of

950
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:45,679
something that is serious 20 000 feet

951
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,279
below and you know a few

952
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,679
a few thousand feet to the side so say

953
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:51,279
it's about you know four or five miles

954
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:52,240
away visually

955
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:54,399
so even if you're going fairly fast you

956
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:56,159
know in your field of view the

957
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:58,080
the rate of change of the of the angle

958
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,919
of the the object isn't going to be that

959
00:29:03,590 --> 00:29:01,520
much so you would be able to

960
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:03,600
to keep an eyeball on it if you could

961
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,960
see it in the first place

962
00:29:08,389 --> 00:29:06,320
and they didn't actually see the object

963
00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:08,399
itself first the the tic tac

964
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,000
object they saw what they described as

965
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,480
being a excuse me a disturbance in the

966
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,159
water so they looked down

967
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,600
and they saw what looked like either

968
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:17,039
waves breaking over something or some

969
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:17,600
kind of

970
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:20,399
boiling in the water uh type disturbance

971
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:22,320
like a submarine surfacing or whale

972
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:24,159
speeding or something like that

973
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:25,520
and then they saw this this tic-tac

974
00:29:28,789 --> 00:29:27,520
object uh above

975
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,799
this disturbance in the water so you

976
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,080
could imagine that you know this this

977
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,080
larger disturbance would catch their eye

978
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:34,399
and then they saw this this smaller tic

979
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:35,279
tac so i think

980
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:37,279
uh you know it's it's you know plausible

981
00:29:40,149 --> 00:29:38,720
that they saw something and certainly

982
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:40,159
seeing something in the water

983
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:41,919
but then when it gets complicated is

984
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,440
like you say they're

985
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:45,360
looking at something where you have no

986
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:46,640
context uh

987
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:48,880
as to how big it is you know it's a tic

988
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:50,480
tac i've got this this is like an iphone

989
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:52,880
case i'm holding up here uh tic tac

990
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,600
shaped

991
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,600
and uh you know you know how big it is

992
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,600
because you know how big my hand is

993
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:59,279
but if this was just you know hovering

994
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:01,039
in space and you know it was there was

995
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,559
blue sky behind it and you didn't know

996
00:30:06,710 --> 00:30:04,480
how far away it was if this was like say

997
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:06,720
you know back on my shelf over here it

998
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,320
would actually be a lot bigger

999
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,159
uh than than what you see here it would

1000
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:11,840
be like you know four times as big

1001
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:15,600
but because you know where it is uh you

1002
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,870
didn't use my skype there uh because

1003
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,559
because you know what the context is you

1004
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:24,480
can figure out how big it is but if you

1005
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:27,679
lack that context you cannot actually

1006
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,480
you cannot actually find out uh uh how

1007
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,679
how big it is and if you don't know how

1008
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:33,200
big something is you don't know how far

1009
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:34,000
away it is

1010
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,440
and vice versa if you don't know how far

1011
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:37,200
away it is you don't how big it is

1012
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:39,919
now fravo says that he looked at this

1013
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:40,320
thing

1014
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,360
and he knew it was 40 feet long and he

1015
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:45,360
was asked by lex friedman like how do

1016
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:47,440
you know this and his answer was

1017
00:30:54,549 --> 00:30:51,120
um 15 years uh experience as a pilot

1018
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:54,559
as a navy pilot top gun pilot right and

1019
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:55,840
uh you know it's just kind of fair

1020
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:58,640
enough but how actually do you know

1021
00:31:02,389 --> 00:31:00,159
how do you know is there some kind of

1022
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,399
technique that you use is do you

1023
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:04,559
reference something else or you just you

1024
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:05,679
look at this thing

1025
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,399
you have no idea what it is no idea what

1026
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,399
uh how how big it is but you instantly

1027
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:11,840
know how big it is by

1028
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,679
by magic you somehow essentially you

1029
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:15,200
know the freighter then goes on to talk

1030
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,919
about

1031
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,600
uh in the same interview with lex

1032
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:18,960
friedman about how

1033
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:22,720
you you can't actually trust your eyes

1034
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:24,799
pretty much how often do you you know do

1035
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:25,919
you trust your eyes

1036
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:28,080
how often do you make mistakes and and

1037
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:29,120
and uh

1038
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,640
and fragrant was saying you know all the

1039
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:32,640
time yeah he says you were actually

1040
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:33,200
trained

1041
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:35,039
not to trust our eyes because your eyes

1042
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:36,640
fool you in aviation

1043
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:38,399
he was talking about other stuff and

1044
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:39,840
saying like you know we go down

1045
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:41,440
when he went down because he didn't go

1046
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:42,799
all the way down to the surface of the

1047
00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:43,840
ocean because you

1048
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:45,440
always stop before you get too close to

1049
00:31:49,590 --> 00:31:47,679
the ocean because people lose spatial

1050
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:49,600
awareness as to how high they are and

1051
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:51,120
they fly into the ocean he said that

1052
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:52,240
happens all the time

1053
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:53,919
right so if he knows about all these

1054
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:55,600
visual illusions that can happen how

1055
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:56,880
does he know something like that didn't

1056
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,480
actually happen to him

1057
00:32:01,750 --> 00:32:00,480
yeah although they have radar altimeters

1058
00:32:03,110 --> 00:32:01,760
in the f-18 and

1059
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:03,120
there are many ways to do it but yes

1060
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:04,799
you're right as a pilot the first lesson

1061
00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:05,440
you get is

1062
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:06,880
trust your instruments that's why we

1063
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:08,559
have exactly instruments that's where

1064
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:10,320
you use the altimeter rather than

1065
00:32:13,190 --> 00:32:11,840
looking to see where the ocean is when

1066
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:13,200
you're descending towards the ocean when

1067
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,000
you try to land

1068
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,799
at an airport yeah you you're using

1069
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:18,720
you're generally using things uh

1070
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:20,559
like like the the the landing aids that

1071
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:21,840
are on the side of the airport on the

1072
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:22,960
other hand you know i am

1073
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:25,039
i am torn right you would like to have

1074
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:26,720
there not be a stigma

1075
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,399
you know if there are some in let's say

1076
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,559
it's it's not you know exotic phenomenon

1077
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:32,559
let's say it is you know chinese drones

1078
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,960
or

1079
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,159
you know let's say those you know

1080
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,159
portuguese i don't know why we always

1081
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:37,919
have to you know stigmatize that there's

1082
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,679
you know these nefarious enemies trying

1083
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:41,279
let's say it's those damn portuguese

1084
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,799
people again they're trying to get back

1085
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:44,480
you know the new world and they've got

1086
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,799
sophisticated anti-aircraft

1087
00:32:50,310 --> 00:32:48,559
you know anyway uh and so they're

1088
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,320
harassing it so you wouldn't want to

1089
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,000
make it so that you know the next time

1090
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:54,320
an f-35 pilot is out there that she's

1091
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,000
not going to report it right so

1092
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:59,039
you don't want to stigmatize it no yeah

1093
00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:01,120
i i'm all for that i'm all for reporting

1094
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:02,480
these incidents because i think

1095
00:33:05,909 --> 00:33:04,480
uh the more that they can be reported

1096
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:05,919
the more we can clear up what's actually

1097
00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:07,519
going on because i think there are very

1098
00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:08,720
real issues here

1099
00:33:12,310 --> 00:33:11,519
uh if fraver you know saw something and

1100
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:12,320
it wasn't identified

1101
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:13,519
that needs to be figured out they should

1102
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,960
have followed it out they should have

1103
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:16,159
tried to figure out what was going on

1104
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:17,279
maybe they did

1105
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:19,360
so uh you know either there was a

1106
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:21,519
failure there in in doing that or they

1107
00:33:25,509 --> 00:33:22,880
already knew what it was

1108
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:25,519
and i think it's probably the former

1109
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:26,720
they probably just didn't take him

1110
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:27,760
seriously

1111
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,600
and they didn't follow up with with uh

1112
00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:31,120
with investigating it

1113
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,760
so i think you know if pilots are seeing

1114
00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:35,679
things that are unidentified

1115
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:39,279
that is an issue uh sometimes that is

1116
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:41,200
going to be the pilots themselves making

1117
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:42,080
mistakes

1118
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:43,760
sometimes it might be issues with

1119
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:45,200
equipment and sometimes it might

1120
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,080
actually be

1121
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:48,080
be real things and it could be just you

1122
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,679
know different ways of looking at things

1123
00:33:51,509 --> 00:33:50,799
that we haven't really like thought

1124
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,519
about

1125
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:54,000
before like you know perhaps sometimes

1126
00:33:56,310 --> 00:33:55,840
we get certain atmospheric effects which

1127
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,320
do

1128
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:58,159
you know make make something appear like

1129
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,840
a flying saucer off in the distance

1130
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,600
so yeah we should definitely look into

1131
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:03,440
these things

1132
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:06,320
so just a reminder take a little pause

1133
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,840
we're speaking with mick west

1134
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,839
who's got a wonderful youtube channel

1135
00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:11,200
which you may find

1136
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:14,800
uh wherever youtube's videos are sold

1137
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:15,839
and bought

1138
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,560
uh i am brian keating the proprietor of

1139
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:20,879
the into the impossible podcast

1140
00:34:24,069 --> 00:34:23,200
and you can find me dr brian keating on

1141
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:24,079
youtube and

1142
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:26,480
on twitter and mickwest mcwest on

1143
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:27,280
twitter

1144
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:29,359
and on youtube as well tomorrow i'm

1145
00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:30,320
going to be interviewing

1146
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,599
seth shostak of the seti institute

1147
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:35,440
who along with jill tarter has been a

1148
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:37,040
longtime guest and friend of the arthur

1149
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:38,639
c clarke center for human imagination

1150
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:40,079
which i co-direct

1151
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:41,359
i am the chancellor's distinguished

1152
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:44,000
professor of physics an astrophysicist

1153
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:47,280
with also with 25 years of flying

1154
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:49,440
small planes not far from the warning

1155
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,399
area where

1156
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:52,399
the tic tac encounter was spot although

1157
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:54,639
it wasn't me and i can prove it because

1158
00:35:12,870 --> 00:34:55,040
i

1159
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:12,880
these encounters represent

1160
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:15,680
advanced technology either earthbound or

1161
00:35:18,790 --> 00:35:16,960
not earthbound

1162
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:18,800
and i want to speculate if mick will

1163
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:20,000
allow me and

1164
00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:21,359
kind of think about what would be the

1165
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:23,040
implications that these uh

1166
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:25,200
are actually representative of

1167
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:26,400
technology

1168
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:29,760
not of our current uh generation or of

1169
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,000
our

1170
00:35:33,109 --> 00:35:32,240
current um current technological

1171
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:33,119
capabilities

1172
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:34,880
before i go there though i do want to

1173
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:37,200
ask a question that is being asked in

1174
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:38,320
the chat room

1175
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:40,079
uh because there are so many questions

1176
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:41,520
coming in i want to thank you all for

1177
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:42,320
putting up

1178
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:45,920
uh your questions in the chat room and

1179
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:48,720
um i will thank you yeah i'm sorry i'm a

1180
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,240
little bit too loud here

1181
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:52,320
uh so array gray is asking what do you

1182
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:55,119
think of the most foundational ufo

1183
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:58,400
cases aerial school siding phoenix

1184
00:36:02,310 --> 00:36:01,760
lab west hall uh school sighting forest

1185
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,320
rend hall

1186
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:04,640
sighting rent rental shim siding how

1187
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,320
much weight do you give to any of these

1188
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:08,320
sightings

1189
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:11,839
well you know a lot of these things are

1190
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:12,079
i

1191
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:20,720
and the uh the reynoldshum forest

1192
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:22,640
citing like i think has some maybe very

1193
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,800
limited imagery but again it was mostly

1194
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:26,800
eyewitness accounts and

1195
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:28,400
a lot of these these sightings are very

1196
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:31,359
very old and i personally

1197
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:34,160
you know while you know i don't don't

1198
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:36,240
want to just dismiss them out of hand

1199
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:38,640
i i'm not particularly interested in

1200
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,119
these old sightings because the evidence

1201
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:43,440
that's available for analysis isn't very

1202
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,720
good

1203
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:47,520
the aerial school one for example the

1204
00:36:51,430 --> 00:36:48,079
evidence

1205
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:51,440
consists of a bunch of children telling

1206
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:53,200
the story of what they

1207
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,240
thought they saw and some pictures

1208
00:37:00,069 --> 00:36:58,640
that the the children drew and there's

1209
00:37:00,790 --> 00:37:00,079
no there's no physical evidence there's

1210
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:00,800
no

1211
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,200
that was a very difficult one to get any

1212
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:08,880
any handle on and you'd have to talk to

1213
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:10,800
like child psychiatrists and memory

1214
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:11,760
experts

1215
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,520
as to you know the validity of their

1216
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:14,880
eyewitness accounts but you know

1217
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:16,079
personally i don't

1218
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,200
i don't think it's particularly

1219
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:19,440
compelling uh and

1220
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:21,520
i i just you know i'm not actually

1221
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,440
really that much of a ufo guy when it

1222
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,640
comes down to it

1223
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,320
uh i only really got into it four years

1224
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:28,400
ago i i'm not deeply seeked in the

1225
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:30,320
the history of ufos uh although i've

1226
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:31,520
been reading a lot recently because it's

1227
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:32,960
so fascinating

1228
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:35,839
but uh what i'm really into is studying

1229
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:36,640
videos

1230
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:38,880
and so that naturally means that i i

1231
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:40,240
look at the newer cases because the

1232
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:41,599
newer cases are the ones that have

1233
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,910
so uh when we think about um i'm just

1234
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:49,359
let me get rid of my middle

1235
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:52,000
ins i just got teleported an extra copy

1236
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:53,839
of me just emerged here

1237
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:56,560
um so some other questions are coming in

1238
00:38:01,990 --> 00:37:57,200
about

1239
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,000
pyramid which i thought you did a

1240
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,400
masterful kind of analysis with

1241
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:06,560
actually making use of free astronomical

1242
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:07,680
toolkits like

1243
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:10,160
stellarium and loading positions the

1244
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:11,440
only thing i thought was missing was

1245
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:12,720
just the analysis of

1246
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:14,240
an arrival what's called an arrival

1247
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:16,320
corridor where aircraft arrive

1248
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:19,599
on predefined set flight paths and the

1249
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,680
fact that many of these aircraft

1250
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:23,359
that fly in what's called controlled

1251
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:24,720
airspace which the tic-tac

1252
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:27,040
encounter by the way was not within if

1253
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:28,720
it was conducted at the surface

1254
00:38:32,069 --> 00:38:30,400
is in what's called a so-called warning

1255
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:32,079
area which anybody who has a pilot's

1256
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:33,440
license can operate in

1257
00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:36,720
they do so at great risk um and that

1258
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:39,440
uh that risk is is to you know potential

1259
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:41,280
life and limb that you may be

1260
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:43,680
intercepted you may be shot you may be

1261
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:44,560
intercepted not

1262
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:47,040
illegally but you may be intercepted as

1263
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,440
a sort of a cat playing with a mouse

1264
00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:52,320
and that would be uh that would be for

1265
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:54,480
practice for these naval aviators

1266
00:38:57,670 --> 00:38:56,000
but you're legally allowed to operate in

1267
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:57,680
this warning area

1268
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:59,680
and but you may be shot with a missile

1269
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:00,800
by accident

1270
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,240
because they can't guarantee your safety

1271
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:04,640
but above 18 000 feet if this object

1272
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:07,520
really did ascend to 60 000 feet uh for

1273
00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:08,320
example but

1274
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:09,839
other things like the boca if you want

1275
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:11,920
to explain that i'll put the video up

1276
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:13,440
i'm having trouble muting my

1277
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:15,920
uh your video but i'll put that up on

1278
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,280
screen the bokeh and

1279
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,960
i'll just play it without sound on my

1280
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:20,640
side uh you want to talk about that or

1281
00:39:23,349 --> 00:39:21,520
do would you rather talk about the

1282
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:23,359
gimbal which which one is sort of more

1283
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:25,599
uh the bokeh's you know the book is

1284
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,960
interesting because it's new but yeah

1285
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,800
real quick i i actually used to uh

1286
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:30,960
fly in that area myself i didn't really

1287
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:32,960
fly over the ocean very much i'd go out

1288
00:39:38,069 --> 00:39:34,720
and look at the dolphins occasionally

1289
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:38,079
but uh yeah around uh 2003 2004

1290
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:39,680
yeah coincidentally the exact same time

1291
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:40,960
of the nimitz encounter i was taking

1292
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:42,960
flying lessons out of santa monica

1293
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:44,960
so i'm kind of familiar with the layout

1294
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:46,800
of the airspace there and you know you

1295
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:48,079
fly out of santa monica you've got the

1296
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:49,680
class b beneath you so you never really

1297
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:51,520
get down to the warning area

1298
00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:54,320
but yeah it's very busy airspace which

1299
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:55,680
is one of the things about it because

1300
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:56,640
obviously you've got

1301
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:59,760
not only lax but you have uh you have

1302
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:01,680
long beach uh john wayne airport and

1303
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:03,200
then you have san diego and then a few

1304
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:04,800
other airports as well you sometimes

1305
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,280
get people flying from hawaii to denver

1306
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:09,040
flying overhead as well and then you get

1307
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:10,000
people flying overhead

1308
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,240
from from the north to san diego very

1309
00:40:15,190 --> 00:40:13,839
very busy airspace so there's lots of

1310
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:15,200
things to see

1311
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:18,000
uh in the sky yeah and you know that

1312
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:19,359
kind of brings us to the

1313
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:22,240
the bokeh video the triangle video okay

1314
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:24,240
is this green night vision

1315
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:26,319
which one uh should i play here i'm

1316
00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:27,599
gonna put the

1317
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,359
i have the bokeh on let me see here i'm

1318
00:40:33,190 --> 00:40:31,440
gonna do screenshots uh

1319
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:33,200
yeah yeah that one's this one's this

1320
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:34,640
one's good this so this is what you're

1321
00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:36,400
seeing there is me actually taking the

1322
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:38,800
video and trying to track where it was

1323
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:41,359
in the the star field and if you go to

1324
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:42,800
the start of that video this i think

1325
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,359
it's just me

1326
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:45,599
yeah it's just the full full trace like

1327
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,800
right at the start of that video you

1328
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,000
actually see

1329
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:50,240
a bunch of stars and the planet jupiter

1330
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:52,000
and somebody else noticed this before

1331
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:54,079
i did and they pointed out that this was

1332
00:40:56,550 --> 00:40:55,839
you know this actual constellation and

1333
00:40:58,230 --> 00:40:56,560
that the

1334
00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:58,240
that uh jupiter was there on that

1335
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:01,280
particular day you know june 15th 2019

1336
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:03,520
and so we knew exactly where the camera

1337
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:05,119
was looking and then we were able to

1338
00:41:09,109 --> 00:41:06,880
trace the camera through the sky

1339
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:09,119
and see where it ended up and where it

1340
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:11,040
ended up there was two other stars

1341
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:14,319
uh right at the end of the of the uh the

1342
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:16,560
the video and you see the flashing

1343
00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:17,680
triangle

1344
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:19,599
passed by these two other stars and

1345
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,200
these two other stars

1346
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:24,079
also take on the shape of triangles and

1347
00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,800
this was kind of

1348
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,240
originally presented when the video came

1349
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:28,319
out of these are two other crafts that

1350
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,640
are not flashing and just hovering there

1351
00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:32,560
but you can see by doing this trace

1352
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:33,920
through it that there are actually these

1353
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:35,040
these two stars

1354
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:36,000
i don't think they're actually labeled

1355
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,680
in this version of the video but you

1356
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,599
know you can actually you'll see it pass

1357
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:41,440
by one of them in a second

1358
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:44,240
uh and yeah we know exactly what what

1359
00:41:47,589 --> 00:41:45,200
the stars are

1360
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:47,599
we know uh what we're looking at we know

1361
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,880
what angle we're looking at because we

1362
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,240
know what time of day it is

1363
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:52,880
roughly uh so we can get a good idea of

1364
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,520
uh

1365
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:55,920
you know what we're actually looking at

1366
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:56,720
in terms of

1367
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,480
uh altitude and angular speed and

1368
00:42:03,190 --> 00:42:01,200
whatnot but you know stepping back a bit

1369
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:03,200
besides knowing where it is in the sky

1370
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:04,960
and the fact that the triangle

1371
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,520
shape of the the object is kind of an

1372
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:09,440
optical artifact which is obvious from

1373
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:11,520
the stars being made into triangles by

1374
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:12,560
the camera

1375
00:42:16,710 --> 00:42:14,560
uh we also see that it's flashing and

1376
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:16,720
it's flashing in a very similar way

1377
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:19,920
to uh the flashing of

1378
00:42:23,589 --> 00:42:22,800
a commercial plane like a boeing 737

1379
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:23,599
there's

1380
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:25,839
they don't have strict ways that they

1381
00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:27,280
have to flash they just have limits

1382
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,640
between which you have plus between

1383
00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:30,640
something like 30 and 70 times per

1384
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:31,839
second or something like that they have

1385
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:32,880
a limit

1386
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:34,319
and different manufacturers have

1387
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:36,079
different types of lights there's led

1388
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:38,560
lights and there's the xenon lights

1389
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:41,040
but yeah basically the bottom line is uh

1390
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:43,280
the flashing pattern looks like a plane

1391
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:46,000
the triangular shape of this object

1392
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:46,560
comes

1393
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,560
uh from an artifact of the camera it has

1394
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:50,000
a triangular

1395
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:52,160
aperture like the the aperture of uh of

1396
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,240
the lens is triangular

1397
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:56,560
uh you know some some lenses have more

1398
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:57,359
circular

1399
00:43:00,470 --> 00:43:00,000
apertures like which this octagonal one

1400
00:43:02,230 --> 00:43:00,480
here

1401
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,240
this one's a triangular one so when you

1402
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,599
take pictures of small lights that are

1403
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:05,040
out of focus they will appear

1404
00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:08,240
as triangles uh and that's that's what

1405
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:09,200
we're seeing here

1406
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,119
so all these things kind of line up and

1407
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:12,800
then we know

1408
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:15,359
the rough location of the plane uh the

1409
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:16,880
of the boat that where where the video

1410
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,040
is taken is the uss russell and we have

1411
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:21,359
the deck logs from those two days

1412
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:24,640
and we have the location

1413
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:27,040
in latitude and longitude of that so you

1414
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:28,800
can stick it on a map and we can go back

1415
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,160
into the

1416
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:32,800
the the flight to flight trapping acts

1417
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:35,040
like plane finder planefinder.net

1418
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:37,280
you can replay back to that day and you

1419
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:38,800
can see exactly which planes were flying

1420
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:40,640
overhead and a whole bunch of planes

1421
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,319
on that particular day it varies based

1422
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:44,480
on the wind and other factors

1423
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:46,480
but on that day there were a whole bunch

1424
00:43:49,750 --> 00:43:48,079
of planes basically flying directly

1425
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:49,760
overhead that area

1426
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:51,359
so everything lines up you've got a

1427
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,520
triangular shaped flashing light

1428
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,520
are moving it's moving a plane speed we

1429
00:44:00,309 --> 00:43:57,119
can do that we can do the whole

1430
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,319
uh translate the angular velocity to

1431
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:02,240
to linear velocity and it works out to

1432
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:03,839
be right if it's at the

1433
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:06,640
same altitude as the planes uh we know

1434
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:07,920
there were planes in that region at the

1435
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:08,640
time

1436
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:11,200
and we know that this is is simply a a

1437
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:12,880
small light that has been turned into a

1438
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:14,800
triangular shape which is what

1439
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:17,040
a a plane would look like and beyond

1440
00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:17,839
that

1441
00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:20,079
we have a whole bunch of people who have

1442
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:22,400
this type of of night vision camera with

1443
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,920
a triangular aperture

1444
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,440
this is just a lens not a night vision

1445
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,960
camera but they have these night vision

1446
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:28,240
cameras with triangular apertures

1447
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:29,359
they've gone out

1448
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:31,359
they've taken pictures of the night sky

1449
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,280
with stars and planes and it looks

1450
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:34,800
exactly the same

1451
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:38,079
as this video so i i really don't feel

1452
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:39,599
like there's very much room

1453
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:42,319
for alternative explanations here and

1454
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:43,280
yet

1455
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,640
people won't let it go so

1456
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:48,640
i want to switch topics to your book

1457
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:50,079
escaping the rabbit hole

1458
00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:51,440
we want to talk about that for a little

1459
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:53,440
bit what is that about what impelled you

1460
00:44:57,829 --> 00:44:54,640
to write it

1461
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,839
uh what is the guide to helping friends

1462
00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:59,520
family and loved ones why do you want

1463
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,960
them to escape

1464
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,720
doesn't it sort of uh you know kind of

1465
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:04,720
depend on what they believe

1466
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:07,920
and uh sure why why why uh why

1467
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:10,560
why did you write this book well uh it's

1468
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:12,000
really about helping people who have

1469
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:13,680
been trapped in some kind of

1470
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:16,640
um conspiracy theory rabbit hole they've

1471
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:17,440
come to believe

1472
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,720
things which are not true like

1473
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:22,720
say an extreme example someone believes

1474
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:24,240
that the earth is flat

1475
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,079
and they're going around saying that the

1476
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:28,160
earth is flat everyone makes fun of them

1477
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,680
because of this they become socially

1478
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:31,520
isolated because the people think that

1479
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:33,200
they are idiots they they try to

1480
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:34,720
persuade other people that the earth is

1481
00:45:37,510 --> 00:45:36,240
flat they don't trust anything that

1482
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:37,520
science says so they

1483
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:38,880
start distrusting every single thing

1484
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:40,960
that's that's out there in science

1485
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,599
and so uh i think it's a worthwhile

1486
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:44,880
thing trying to

1487
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:46,880
help them get out of that belief now

1488
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:48,240
that's an extreme belief

1489
00:45:52,150 --> 00:45:50,560
there are lots of other uh conspiracy

1490
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:52,160
theory beliefs that are out there that

1491
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:53,520
are less extreme but

1492
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:55,839
for example some people believe that the

1493
00:45:59,829 --> 00:45:57,520
world trade center was

1494
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,839
destroyed by the us government using

1495
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:01,440
pre-planted explosives

1496
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:03,040
you know this is something that people

1497
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:04,480
actually believe so it's conspiracy

1498
00:46:08,309 --> 00:46:06,240
theory that people believe

1499
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,319
and if you start believing that again

1500
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:09,920
you start uh

1501
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:12,720
having all these very anti-social forms

1502
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,000
of the better word

1503
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,400
but if if if you start you know having

1504
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:18,400
this deep-seated distrust of the

1505
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:20,240
government you can kind of go south in a

1506
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:22,960
in a very in a very short space of time

1507
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:24,880
if you think back to a long time ago

1508
00:46:30,710 --> 00:46:27,520
there was the oklahoma city bombing

1509
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:30,720
which i think was in the 1990s uh maybe

1510
00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:32,880
the early 2000s the 1990s yeah but that

1511
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,640
that was to my timothy mcveigh

1512
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,560
and he was a believer in conspiracy

1513
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,160
theories he thought

1514
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:40,079
that the u.s government was in league

1515
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:41,680
with the united nations and was going to

1516
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,119
enslave everybody

1517
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:46,480
and he was sending a message to to the

1518
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:48,000
powers that be that you know he wasn't

1519
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:49,280
going to take it

1520
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:51,119
so these conspiracy theories have

1521
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:53,440
consequences both for the individual and

1522
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:55,040
for society as a whole

1523
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:57,359
and so something i've i've actually been

1524
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:58,880
interested in in general

1525
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:01,119
is just how do you talk to people who

1526
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:02,720
believe in conspiracy theories and you

1527
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:04,079
know kind of what i've learned over the

1528
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:05,359
years is that

1529
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:08,480
the key thing to do is first of all

1530
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:11,040
keep talking you maintain an effective

1531
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:12,480
communication

1532
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:16,319
with people and uh don't

1533
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:17,599
don't get into a position where you're

1534
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:19,520
arguing with them straight away because

1535
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:20,000
until

1536
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,760
you you reach some kind of mutual

1537
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:23,040
understanding you're not going to get

1538
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:23,599
anywhere

1539
00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,880
so the first thing you've got to do is

1540
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:26,800
like keep talking second thing you've

1541
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:28,480
got to do is try to figure out figure

1542
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,400
them out try to understand them

1543
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:33,359
and or and on the flip side try to

1544
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:34,160
explain to

1545
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:36,319
them where you are coming from but

1546
00:47:38,870 --> 00:47:37,920
always do it in this context of keeping

1547
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:38,880
the conversation

1548
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:40,319
going and then when you kind of

1549
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:41,760
establish that and you've got some kind

1550
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,079
of

1551
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:43,760
common ground you can then move on to

1552
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:45,359
kind of the the second step of the

1553
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,319
process

1554
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,319
which is supplying them with useful

1555
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:50,480
information which is you know if they

1556
00:47:53,589 --> 00:47:52,559
they say something which is wrong you

1557
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,599
can at this point know you've

1558
00:47:56,549 --> 00:47:55,280
established effective communication you

1559
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:56,559
can respectfully

1560
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:59,680
introduce other opinions and facts and

1561
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:00,960
then talk about them you know they're

1562
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,319
not necessarily going to agree with it

1563
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:04,079
but you can talk about it

1564
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:05,440
and then the third step here in my

1565
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:07,760
three-step program is to give it time

1566
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,760
because these things take a lot more

1567
00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:11,680
time than you would initially think you

1568
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:13,119
think you could just go in there

1569
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:14,559
explain to someone why they're wrong and

1570
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,240
they'll be like oh yeah but no

1571
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:17,599
it doesn't work like that you explain to

1572
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:18,640
them why they're wrong and they say

1573
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:20,240
you're a government chill

1574
00:48:23,349 --> 00:48:22,240
and they stopped talking to you so it's

1575
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:23,359
a kick gloves

1576
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:26,480
process that takes a lot of time uh when

1577
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:27,920
i remind folks we're talking with mick

1578
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:28,880
west who's got his

1579
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:31,920
own podcast he's got his own book and

1580
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,280
he's got his own youtube channel

1581
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:35,599
a competitor to mine but i do hope that

1582
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:37,280
you will tune in to both subscribe to

1583
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:38,960
both even though it's a zero-sum game

1584
00:48:40,950 --> 00:48:39,520
mech

1585
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:40,960
hopefully we'll find some fertile

1586
00:48:44,549 --> 00:48:43,119
cross-pollination i want to ask a

1587
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:44,559
question that is being asked by a

1588
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,359
listener

1589
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:47,119
um who has a name that i was going gonna

1590
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:48,559
choose for my first born

1591
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:50,720
son his name is boiled pizza which is

1592
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:51,920
making me hungry

1593
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:53,839
uh to be honest but he asked a good

1594
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:55,119
question which i'll rephrase a little

1595
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:55,520
bit

1596
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:57,760
uh mick i wanna ask you which uh debate

1597
00:49:00,630 --> 00:49:00,000
opponent on the other side of the ufo

1598
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:00,640
aisle

1599
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:03,520
would you most fear or do you most uh

1600
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:05,280
feel is most kind of intimidating to

1601
00:49:11,589 --> 00:49:05,680
your

1602
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:11,599
well i don't know i i i talked recently

1603
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:13,440
with oh gosh i remember forget his name

1604
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:13,760
now

1605
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,960
um but the guy from the the scu i almost

1606
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:18,559
apologized to him but uh

1607
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,319
uh robert i think something but you know

1608
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:22,480
he was a guy who had been kind of

1609
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,319
asking me for a long time to have a

1610
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:26,319
debate with him because you know he felt

1611
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:27,440
like he could

1612
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:29,760
uh obliterate me and we had you know a

1613
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:31,599
reasonable chat and we we threshed out a

1614
00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:33,119
few things and we had some disagreements

1615
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:34,480
and some agreements

1616
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:37,599
i don't like to debate people i like to

1617
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:38,800
have discussions with them

1618
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:41,520
yeah i think there's no point trying to

1619
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:42,640
you know try

1620
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:44,720
try to be like who has the best argument

1621
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:46,559
here we're not lawyers in a courtroom

1622
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:47,920
trying to present a case

1623
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,200
trying to get someone off you know

1624
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,680
lawyers have to

1625
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:53,520
just look at one side i don't want to

1626
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:54,800
look at just one side i want to figure

1627
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:57,040
out what's going on i'm not a lawyer i'm

1628
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:58,640
an investigator i'm someone who's trying

1629
00:50:02,069 --> 00:49:59,760
to figure out

1630
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,079
what actually happened in these cases

1631
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:04,400
and so if anybody wants to talk to me

1632
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:05,680
that's fine i mean if you wouldn't they

1633
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:07,200
want to argue with me that's fine too

1634
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:08,800
like i don't i don't mind that

1635
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,559
you know if they want to try to point

1636
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:12,240
out where i'm wrong that's great

1637
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:13,920
because if people are pointing out where

1638
00:50:16,950 --> 00:50:15,920
i'm wrong we can have a discussion about

1639
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:16,960
that and we can say

1640
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:18,400
you know am i actually wrong you know

1641
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:20,960
maybe maybe not so maybe i am and if i

1642
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:21,280
am

1643
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:24,960
i'll revise my position and move on

1644
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:27,599
very good uh so we have a couple more

1645
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:29,440
questions from the audience

1646
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:31,920
and i will also conclude with some

1647
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:32,480
questions

1648
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:35,680
of my own so cooperating with the

1649
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:37,280
uh to the stars academy which you

1650
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:38,800
corrected me about of course

1651
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:40,400
uh is not out of the question you would

1652
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,000
love to have them

1653
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,240
uh uh collaborate with you but so far

1654
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:46,000
they have not uh accepted what do you

1655
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:47,599
make of harry reid and

1656
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:49,520
and uh you know getting involved in this

1657
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:51,520
uh kind of make strange bedfellows with

1658
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:53,359
marco rubio is that uh

1659
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:56,079
did that pique your interest yeah well i

1660
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:56,960
mean harry reid

1661
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:59,760
has been a uh ufo enthusiast for a long

1662
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:00,160
time

1663
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,839
he got into ufos back in 1996 when he

1664
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,760
i think first went to ufo convention

1665
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:07,440
with her with his friend george knapp

1666
00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:08,000
who's a

1667
00:51:13,270 --> 00:51:11,119
a local las vegas journalist and he

1668
00:51:14,309 --> 00:51:13,280
he has a friend uh rob bigelow was the

1669
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,319
guy behind

1670
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:16,079
the a-tip program he got the original

1671
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:17,440
latip

1672
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:19,920
contract so you know he's he's been a

1673
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:22,800
ufo enthusiast for a long time

1674
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,880
uh i don't know about strange bedfellows

1675
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:26,160
with with rubio it's

1676
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,920
it's kind of in a way a kind of an

1677
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:29,760
apolitical issue

1678
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,119
um so you know if republicans want to

1679
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:35,440
get interested in it then i don't think

1680
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:37,119
they're going to be particularly you

1681
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:38,559
know upset that they're working with

1682
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:39,760
democrats on it

1683
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:41,920
uh you have rubio and you have mark

1684
00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:43,680
warner who is the actual chief of the

1685
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:45,040
intelligence committee

1686
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:47,920
now that rubio was when trump was

1687
00:51:50,470 --> 00:51:48,800
president

1688
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:50,480
and you know they're they're basically

1689
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:52,240
saying the same thing that there are

1690
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:54,000
things that the military can't always

1691
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:55,359
identify and uh

1692
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:57,119
that we should look into this because

1693
00:52:00,790 --> 00:51:58,720
like i said earlier

1694
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,800
it's an issue so yeah i don't really see

1695
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:02,640
any kind of political

1696
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:07,349
and what do you say to those that

1697
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:09,440
criticize you because you're a video

1698
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:09,920
game

1699
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:13,280
designer i mean uh for example i heard

1700
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:13,839
fravor

1701
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,880
comment on you uh well you know the the

1702
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,720
tic tac analysis that you did

1703
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:20,400
you know the plane is is you have the

1704
00:52:23,589 --> 00:52:21,920
gimbal but the plane is not

1705
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:23,599
it's not banking it's just sort of

1706
00:52:26,069 --> 00:52:25,760
pivoting and aircraft don't really do

1707
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:26,079
that

1708
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:33,280
well uh video game programming is

1709
00:52:36,549 --> 00:52:34,640
actually fairly complicated

1710
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:36,559
there's a lot of a lot of stuff going on

1711
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:38,240
in there uh so the the and the

1712
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:40,000
mathematics that we're talking about in

1713
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:41,680
terms of things like gimbal rotation

1714
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:43,920
and uh the axes of rotation and

1715
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:46,240
three-dimensional transforms uh

1716
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:47,839
are just the exact same types of things

1717
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,760
that i do in video game programming so i

1718
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:51,359
may not know the nuts and bolts

1719
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:52,880
of you know what button to press in the

1720
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,559
cockpit but i understand

1721
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:56,640
what happens when a mirror rotates or i

1722
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:57,839
understand what happens when

1723
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,280
when a camera rotates and i understand

1724
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,520
what gimbal lock is

1725
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:03,520
and i can read i can read the pattern so

1726
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:05,440
i can see what's going on inside

1727
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:07,760
inside these cameras now fraver is great

1728
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,200
at um

1729
00:53:13,589 --> 00:53:11,359
operating the equipment that doesn't

1730
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:13,599
mean he necessarily knows every nuance

1731
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,000
of what

1732
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:16,800
might happen uh to it in various unusual

1733
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:19,280
situations like with with the gimbal

1734
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:20,960
i don't think he really had a good

1735
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,640
rebuttal of uh the

1736
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:24,079
fact that there is this gimbal role in

1737
00:53:28,549 --> 00:53:26,480
fact he explicitly said that there

1738
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,559
wasn't a gimbal roll transition when you

1739
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:30,400
go past zero degrees

1740
00:53:34,470 --> 00:53:33,119
and yet in underwater's video which he's

1741
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:34,480
very familiar with

1742
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,000
you can actually see the gimbal roll

1743
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:38,079
happen you see the entire sky rotate

1744
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:39,760
much more dramatically in fact than in

1745
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:42,160
the gimbal video so

1746
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,680
he's missing something that's right

1747
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,440
there in front of his face

1748
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,440
and i think if i was to be able to sit

1749
00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:49,520
down with him and respectfully

1750
00:53:54,390 --> 00:53:53,040
go through it with him i'm sure he could

1751
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:54,400
show me things but i think i could

1752
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:57,680
probably show him a few things as well

1753
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:59,280
yeah i mean from a physics perspective

1754
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:00,800
which is the way i hope to engage you

1755
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:02,480
know i can't engage

1756
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:04,640
other than the tools that i have which

1757
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:06,319
are you know from the perspective of an

1758
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:07,680
astrophysicist is

1759
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:10,240
very learned in general relativity

1760
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:11,280
quantum mechanics

1761
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:13,599
uh thermodynamics et cetera you know

1762
00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:14,559
these objects

1763
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:17,280
are you know potentially traversing you

1764
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:17,599
know

1765
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,520
interstellar phenomena

1766
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:22,960
they would have to traverse vast

1767
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:25,280
distances be controlled remotely

1768
00:54:30,630 --> 00:54:28,800
uh be autonomous because you know

1769
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:30,640
they'd have to have some purpose in mind

1770
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:32,079
and then they're operating in a very

1771
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:32,960
narrow

1772
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:34,160
you know region of the earth's

1773
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:36,799
mesosphere um in very short durations

1774
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:38,160
but then they happen to be

1775
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:41,440
in a very very narrow region of

1776
00:54:46,789 --> 00:54:44,720
one country's warning areas um

1777
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,799
you know that's defined by a obscure

1778
00:54:50,950 --> 00:54:48,160
administration

1779
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:50,960
agency of the federal government um and

1780
00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:52,720
and they seem to show up preferentially

1781
00:54:56,549 --> 00:54:54,000
in one country

1782
00:54:58,870 --> 00:54:56,559
um and they don't show up you know when

1783
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:58,880
venus is below the horizon as often

1784
00:55:01,910 --> 00:55:00,400
they don't show up outside of certain

1785
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:01,920
flight paths um

1786
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,440
and what do you make of also this kind

1787
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:05,359
of uh resurgence of

1788
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,520
of interest of course you know david

1789
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,040
kaiser is professor of science

1790
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:11,760
technology as well as physics at mit uh

1791
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:12,400
wrote a book

1792
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:15,520
recently quantum legacies about the how

1793
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:17,280
the atom and splitting the atom and the

1794
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:19,040
quantum revolution

1795
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,359
led to many similar related phenomena

1796
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:23,520
both the threat of nuclear holocaust but

1797
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:24,240
also

1798
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:26,799
the resurgence or the surge of interest

1799
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:27,920
in radar

1800
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:31,680
in ufos etc and now we kind of see a new

1801
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:34,640
uh twin paradox coming about where we

1802
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:35,920
have a resurgence

1803
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:39,040
or a surge in interest in interplanetary

1804
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:41,839
uh uh travel a courtesy of spacex

1805
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,640
perhaps

1806
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,559
we have exploration going back to the

1807
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:46,319
moon not the space age space race

1808
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,200
originally

1809
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,760
we have uh hopes for fusion reactors on

1810
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:51,200
earth we have hopes for

1811
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:53,680
artificial intelligence machine learning

1812
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:55,520
it's sort of like paralleling

1813
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:58,400
the post-war dayton but cold war instead

1814
00:56:00,710 --> 00:56:00,079
of russia we may have china as we've

1815
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,720
said

1816
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:02,400
um do you make of it that you know kind

1817
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:04,559
of this arises in amelia

1818
00:56:08,549 --> 00:56:07,200
of vast technological kind of um what

1819
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:08,559
they call future shock

1820
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:10,720
is that to be expected in in such a

1821
00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:12,319
milieu

1822
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:14,960
i think so uh but i'm not sure that's

1823
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:16,319
what's happening here i'm not sure

1824
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:16,880
what's

1825
00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:19,359
with the current ufo flap it's actually

1826
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:20,880
really any difference to

1827
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:25,359
the the ufo flaps of the 1940s and 1950s

1828
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:27,920
now back in the the 40s and 50s we we

1829
00:56:31,829 --> 00:56:28,799
had a very

1830
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:31,839
um kind of interesting technological

1831
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,640
uh backdrop which was the the threat of

1832
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:36,799
nuclear weapons and the the promise of

1833
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:38,319
nuclear power

1834
00:56:41,349 --> 00:56:40,640
uh so we we had this kind of new

1835
00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:41,359
technology

1836
00:56:45,109 --> 00:56:42,880
and a lot of people theorized at the

1837
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,119
time that uh flying saucers were

1838
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:47,680
actually russian nuclear-powered planes

1839
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:49,119
and that somehow that the russians had

1840
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:50,960
done this technological leap which is

1841
00:56:54,549 --> 00:56:52,880
something people theorize now that

1842
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:54,559
what we're seeing is an adversary who

1843
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,200
has developed some kind of warp drive

1844
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:59,040
so it's very it seems very very similar

1845
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:00,480
but i don't think there's this kind of

1846
00:57:04,230 --> 00:57:02,000
similar backdrop

1847
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:04,240
uh in in terms of an advancing

1848
00:57:07,829 --> 00:57:05,359
technology

1849
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:07,839
i mean sure there's the the space uh

1850
00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:09,520
spacex aspect of it but

1851
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,319
and that's contributed but i think more

1852
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,400
spacex has contributed because of the

1853
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:16,319
the spacex satellites and the

1854
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:18,640
the constellation trains of satellites

1855
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,359
are still being mistaken for ufos

1856
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:23,760
my feeling isn't really the there's this

1857
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:24,559
big

1858
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,720
represented by a shift in in perceptions

1859
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:30,000
of ufos

1860
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:31,839
i think what we're seeing now is really

1861
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:34,160
essentially uh

1862
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:37,599
the result of a fairly good pr program

1863
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:39,440
by the the groups of people who are

1864
00:57:42,630 --> 00:57:41,760
interested in in ufo disclosure i mean

1865
00:57:45,109 --> 00:57:42,640
going back to

1866
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:45,119
harry reid and rob biglow and you know

1867
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,839
tom de long

1868
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:47,680
and and luella zonda and people like

1869
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:49,680
that they're doing a good job

1870
00:57:56,069 --> 00:57:53,119
of getting it out there in the media

1871
00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:56,079
uh tim wilson is saying uh the names of

1872
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:58,240
the videos go fast gimbal

1873
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,680
are clear indications that the

1874
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:01,599
department of defense realize what they

1875
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:02,400
are

1876
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:06,960
make of that

1877
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:09,440
uh it could be that the the names of the

1878
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:10,240
videos

1879
00:58:13,510 --> 00:58:12,000
represent what's actually in them in

1880
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,520
terms of uh

1881
00:58:17,589 --> 00:58:15,599
the analysis of them like the go fast

1882
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:17,599
video you can think of that both ways

1883
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:19,359
because go fast

1884
00:58:22,950 --> 00:58:21,920
looks like it's going fast so if they

1885
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:22,960
were really trolling people they would

1886
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:24,000
call it go slow

1887
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:25,440
because it's actually going slow and

1888
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:27,680
that would be the real explanation

1889
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:29,599
the gimbal video i think is is perhaps

1890
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:31,119
the more telling file name

1891
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:32,559
and these are actually the file names

1892
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:34,960
that were released by the dod

1893
00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:38,000
uh and because the the rotation of the

1894
00:58:42,470 --> 00:58:39,359
gimbal craft

1895
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:42,480
uh appears to be a gimbal lock

1896
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:44,319
and a gimbal lock artifact the camera

1897
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,799
traverses zero degrees it has to rotate

1898
00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:48,880
as it at some time while it passes zero

1899
00:58:52,870 --> 00:58:50,799
degrees and that causes

1900
00:58:53,990 --> 00:58:52,880
uh the horizon to rotate relative to

1901
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:54,000
that the camera

1902
00:58:57,349 --> 00:58:55,520
which means that the glares are now at

1903
00:58:59,430 --> 00:58:57,359
an angle relative to the horizon

1904
00:59:01,349 --> 00:58:59,440
and then the d rotation mechanism has to

1905
00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:01,359
rotate the horizon back which means that

1906
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:03,119
the glare is now rotated

1907
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:05,119
in the scene relative to where it was

1908
00:59:09,589 --> 00:59:06,319
before so

1909
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,599
yeah that it could well be that this

1910
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,280
this file name gimbal

1911
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:13,520
represents the actual explanation of

1912
00:59:22,069 --> 00:59:19,190
uh so we have a question from philip

1913
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:22,079
shane who is a good friend and host of

1914
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,359
the what the if

1915
00:59:26,549 --> 00:59:26,160
uh podcast and let me see if i can call

1916
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:26,559
up

1917
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:30,240
his um his this question so philip is

1918
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:32,319
asking would noah be a proper

1919
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:34,559
national oceanographic and atmospheric

1920
00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:35,839
administration

1921
00:59:40,150 --> 00:59:37,440
would they be a proper agency to

1922
00:59:42,789 --> 00:59:40,160
investigate um uaps

1923
00:59:43,510 --> 00:59:42,799
and i think that uaps he's saying should

1924
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:43,520
be called

1925
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:47,760
unidentified atmospheric phenomena

1926
00:59:50,870 --> 00:59:49,520
well that's certainly a possibility and

1927
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:50,880
you know a lot of the times when people

1928
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:52,319
point to things in the sky they are

1929
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:53,680
actually pointing at atmospheric

1930
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:55,040
phenomena they're pointing at things

1931
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:56,880
like clouds or things like

1932
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,160
uh inversion layers causing some kind of

1933
01:00:03,510 --> 01:00:02,480
mirage like a like a fatima or ghana

1934
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:03,520
type mirage or

1935
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:06,240
superior mirage where something that's

1936
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:07,280
on the horizon

1937
01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:09,760
appears like it's floating way up above

1938
01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:10,640
it

1939
01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:13,680
so i don't think obviously that every

1940
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:14,079
single

1941
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:15,920
ufo is some kind of atmospheric

1942
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:17,520
phenomena but

1943
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:19,839
uh certainly people who are experts in

1944
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:21,520
that that type of thing that noah could

1945
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,119
be involved in the discussion and

1946
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:25,200
nasa has a lot of atmospheric scientists

1947
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:26,480
as well so

1948
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:29,920
yeah i think uh a europa a uap

1949
01:00:35,109 --> 01:00:33,119
task force of any any any quality

1950
01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:35,119
would have an atmospheric scientist on

1951
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:37,359
board

1952
01:00:41,589 --> 01:00:40,160
and the last uh sort of question that um

1953
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:41,599
someone's asking if you would like a tic

1954
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:42,000
tac

1955
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:44,640
i think that's not called for i think

1956
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:45,359
that's weight

1957
01:00:49,829 --> 01:00:47,280
out of order nobody wants a tic tac

1958
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:49,839
right now this podcast is sponsored by

1959
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,040
by bubbalicious of course um i wanna

1960
01:00:56,470 --> 01:00:55,280
i am a big fan of tic tacs actually i

1961
01:00:58,630 --> 01:00:56,480
have my empty box

1962
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:58,640
that i just finished earlier the gum of

1963
01:01:01,510 --> 01:00:59,760
choice you need a

1964
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,520
need a new supply so thank you for those

1965
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:03,359
super chats i'll make sure

1966
01:01:08,470 --> 01:01:06,400
mick gets a tick an attack i'm sorry i

1967
01:01:09,990 --> 01:01:08,480
said tick tock later that earlier that

1968
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:10,000
must have been i was talking too much

1969
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,960
about chinese

1970
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:12,480
that's why i'm being so nice and saying

1971
01:01:14,870 --> 01:01:14,240
the portuguese are responsible for all

1972
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:14,880
this

1973
01:01:18,710 --> 01:01:17,200
um so i also want to talk just the last

1974
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:18,720
points about kind of the scientific

1975
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:19,200
method

1976
01:01:23,829 --> 01:01:21,280
scientific results i think there is sort

1977
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:23,839
of a wish fulfillment in some sense that

1978
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:24,160
um

1979
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:26,880
as i said earlier no astronomer worth

1980
01:01:31,030 --> 01:01:29,119
his or her salt would turn down

1981
01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:31,040
you know the opportunity to study these

1982
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:32,480
phenomena uh first of all be

1983
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:34,400
instantaneous tenure i have a colleague

1984
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:35,040
here

1985
01:01:39,109 --> 01:01:37,040
professor shelly wright she studies

1986
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:39,119
optical seti she's looking for burst of

1987
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,680
light

1988
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:41,280
not far from where you are at the lick

1989
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:42,799
observatory

1990
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:45,599
looking for blast of light from alien

1991
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:46,960
civilizations

1992
01:01:50,069 --> 01:01:49,119
this is legitimate scientific study uh

1993
01:01:52,230 --> 01:01:50,079
it has been

1994
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:52,240
studied for 60 years plus and tomorrow

1995
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:53,680
when seth shellstack comes on the

1996
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:54,640
podcast

1997
01:01:58,549 --> 01:01:56,160
i'm going to ask him uh when this was

1998
01:01:59,349 --> 01:01:58,559
conceived in the 1960s frank drake and

1999
01:02:03,910 --> 01:01:59,359
others

2000
01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:03,920
thought it would be maybe a quick search

2001
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:05,680
and and it was kind of spare time on

2002
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,440
telescopes radio telescopes

2003
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,200
it's now lasted you know in the seventh

2004
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,440
decade when do you stop searching

2005
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:13,440
um because there is a phenomena look

2006
01:02:17,190 --> 01:02:14,880
elsewhere you know if you look

2007
01:02:17,910 --> 01:02:17,200
long enough you will start to see three

2008
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:17,920
sigma

2009
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:20,720
standard deviation type effects but you

2010
01:02:23,990 --> 01:02:21,760
know is that

2011
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:24,000
justifiable is that self-justifiable is

2012
01:02:27,589 --> 01:02:25,839
there a sunk cost hypothesis

2013
01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:27,599
i know this isn't your field but you

2014
01:02:30,309 --> 01:02:29,520
know when do you stop looking or when do

2015
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:30,319
you double down

2016
01:02:33,270 --> 01:02:31,680
what do you think about the search for

2017
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:33,280
extraterrestrial intelligence totally

2018
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:34,480
distinct from what you and i have been

2019
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:35,760
talking about

2020
01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:37,760
yeah well i think uh that there's

2021
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:39,359
there's two two

2022
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:41,520
searches really there's the search out

2023
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,960
there and then there's the search here

2024
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:44,559
and you know the ufo stuff is obviously

2025
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:47,039
the search here but the external search

2026
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:49,200
i think is something that you know where

2027
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:50,559
i would never stop looking

2028
01:02:53,829 --> 01:02:52,480
for that i don't i don't think you're

2029
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:53,839
ever going to exhaust

2030
01:02:57,589 --> 01:02:56,640
the the data sets that are out there or

2031
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,599
you're not going to

2032
01:03:00,870 --> 01:02:59,119
exhaust different ways of looking for

2033
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:00,880
things like different ways of looking

2034
01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:03,119
for signatures in exoplanet uh

2035
01:03:08,470 --> 01:03:05,280
atmospheres and uh

2036
01:03:10,390 --> 01:03:08,480
deep variants in in

2037
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:10,400
solar radiation from from other stars

2038
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:11,680
for things like dyson spheres and

2039
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:12,720
whatnot

2040
01:03:16,710 --> 01:03:15,200
various dyson structures so there's

2041
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:16,720
always going to be things to look for

2042
01:03:20,870 --> 01:03:19,359
uh i think yeah sure like you might get

2043
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:20,880
some kind of false positive

2044
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:22,720
eventually but that doesn't mean that

2045
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:24,640
you you don't stop looking it just means

2046
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:26,079
that's just another data point

2047
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:27,280
because it's not going to prove its

2048
01:03:30,150 --> 01:03:28,559
people because you know people will do

2049
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:30,160
that do the math and you know figure out

2050
01:03:34,390 --> 01:03:31,680
that that doesn't actually

2051
01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:34,400
uh prove that something exists out there

2052
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:35,039
and you you

2053
01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:36,640
follow up with the experiment you'd look

2054
01:03:39,670 --> 01:03:38,160
in the same bit of the sky and you know

2055
01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:39,680
see what else is out there

2056
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:42,799
so i i i'm a big science fiction fan

2057
01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:43,760
like i said big

2058
01:03:47,190 --> 01:03:45,920
arthur c clarke uh fan my one of my

2059
01:03:48,549 --> 01:03:47,200
favorite books when i was younger was

2060
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:48,559
rendezvous with rama

2061
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:52,160
and i just love the idea of uh of aliens

2062
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:52,640
and

2063
01:03:57,029 --> 01:03:55,520
i think we should keep looking so i want

2064
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:57,039
to build on a question by

2065
01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:59,119
tim as well um but i want to ask you

2066
01:04:03,029 --> 01:04:00,880
know your game designer

2067
01:04:04,150 --> 01:04:03,039
uh let's fast forward you know 20

2068
01:04:06,390 --> 01:04:04,160
millennia

2069
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:06,400
let's let's apply moore's law you know

2070
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:07,839
what do video games look like

2071
01:04:11,190 --> 01:04:09,440
what does uh what does you know

2072
01:04:12,549 --> 01:04:11,200
computational technology look like what

2073
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,559
does ar look like

2074
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:14,880
um what if there are you know advances

2075
01:04:18,390 --> 01:04:16,880
uh keeping a pace first of all is it

2076
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,400
possible can we keep progressing

2077
01:04:22,630 --> 01:04:19,839
according to moore's law

2078
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:22,640
just thinking about video games yeah

2079
01:04:25,029 --> 01:04:23,039
well

2080
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:25,039
uh you think about i mean video games

2081
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:26,880
are essentially simulations of reality

2082
01:04:31,349 --> 01:04:28,720
and you know what we're talking about

2083
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:31,359
here is is getting more and more

2084
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:33,359
high fidelity simulations that more

2085
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:34,880
closely uh

2086
01:04:39,829 --> 01:04:37,920
resemble the real world and uh

2087
01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:39,839
yeah moore's law does does have certain

2088
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:41,599
physical limits you you can't keep

2089
01:04:43,829 --> 01:04:43,440
making transistors smaller and smaller

2090
01:04:47,190 --> 01:04:43,839
because

2091
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:47,200
you know atoms uh are not divisible in

2092
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:47,920
terms of

2093
01:04:52,829 --> 01:04:51,359
you know silicon but uh you can have

2094
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:52,839
massively parallel

2095
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,000
computation and you can

2096
01:05:00,309 --> 01:04:58,720
extend that out almost indefinitely and

2097
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:00,319
all it requires is space

2098
01:05:04,870 --> 01:05:03,280
material and energy so we could build

2099
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:04,880
theoretically in the future very very

2100
01:05:08,150 --> 01:05:06,799
large computers that could use

2101
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:08,160
like like i was mentioned the dyson

2102
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:09,680
sphere which is a sphere that

2103
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:11,440
encompasses a star to use all of the

2104
01:05:14,390 --> 01:05:12,160
energy

2105
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:14,400
that the star is putting out you could

2106
01:05:17,829 --> 01:05:16,000
make a um

2107
01:05:19,910 --> 01:05:17,839
a supercomputer which was the size of a

2108
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:19,920
dyson sphere which would be

2109
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:21,760
incredibly incredibly large and you

2110
01:05:25,670 --> 01:05:24,079
could do a very impressive video game

2111
01:05:27,029 --> 01:05:25,680
with a computer that size

2112
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:27,039
i don't know who would be playing it but

2113
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,160
essentially what you're talking about

2114
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:30,079
there is a simulation

2115
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:32,960
that is indistinguishable from reality

2116
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:34,079
you know you know of course that leads

2117
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:35,680
you to the simulation hypothesis are we

2118
01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:36,000
living

2119
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:40,240
in a simulation now uh but yeah i think

2120
01:05:44,549 --> 01:05:42,640
yeah perhaps like you know going along

2121
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:44,559
those lines you think could aliens

2122
01:05:47,589 --> 01:05:46,400
have developed some kind of

2123
01:05:51,190 --> 01:05:47,599
supercomputer like that

2124
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:51,200
and if they have like probably it that

2125
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:52,799
supercomputer is going to be vastly more

2126
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:53,920
intelligent

2127
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:56,400
than those aliens themselves were if you

2128
01:05:59,910 --> 01:05:58,160
get enough computing power

2129
01:06:02,630 --> 01:05:59,920
and you structure the thing right you're

2130
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:02,640
going to get hyper intelligence which is

2131
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:04,400
vastly more powerful than

2132
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:08,000
uh than humans and which makes the case

2133
01:06:11,109 --> 01:06:09,280
that i think

2134
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:11,119
if aliens do arrive they will probably

2135
01:06:14,390 --> 01:06:12,400
arrive in the form of

2136
01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:14,400
super intelligent robots rather than

2137
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:17,359
aliens themselves

2138
01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:20,160
and thinking about uh you know kind of

2139
01:06:25,589 --> 01:06:20,640
the

2140
01:06:28,789 --> 01:06:25,599
think it's more likely than not

2141
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:28,799
that the net result of this

2142
01:06:35,510 --> 01:06:32,079
uh release purportedly coming very soon

2143
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:35,520
perhaps in a next day or two uh would be

2144
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:37,839
would be almost amounting to just a

2145
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:39,599
confirmation of what's been

2146
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:41,359
already talked about in other words that

2147
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:43,440
the pentagon could essentially just

2148
01:06:47,029 --> 01:06:44,960
release what's already been released

2149
01:06:48,630 --> 01:06:47,039
maybe wrap it up with some you know

2150
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:48,640
government stamp with some

2151
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:51,359
redacted tape put over some some some

2152
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:52,319
splotches and

2153
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:55,440
satisfy the rubio commission and so

2154
01:06:57,750 --> 01:06:56,079
forth

2155
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,760
or do you think you know they basically

2156
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:59,280
have to release something as eric

2157
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:00,400
weinstein has said

2158
01:07:03,910 --> 01:07:02,720
you know how do we how do we you know

2159
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:03,920
kind of uh

2160
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:06,480
troll the the state and say oh we've got

2161
01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:07,440
all this information we're going to

2162
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:09,280
release it but then simultaneously

2163
01:07:13,109 --> 01:07:10,400
release almost nothing

2164
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:13,119
i mean isn't that basically uh beyond

2165
01:07:17,349 --> 01:07:14,720
the pale of what a government could do

2166
01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:17,359
to its citizens well they haven't said

2167
01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:18,799
that they've got all this information

2168
01:07:21,910 --> 01:07:20,720
uh louis elizondo has said he's got all

2169
01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:21,920
the information but he's not in the

2170
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:23,680
pentagon anymore he's uh he

2171
01:07:27,670 --> 01:07:26,480
you know he left it several years ago

2172
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:27,680
various other people have said things

2173
01:07:31,109 --> 01:07:28,799
but the actual pentagon

2174
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,119
hasn't really said that they've got lots

2175
01:07:34,230 --> 01:07:32,799
of information they're going to release

2176
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:34,240
they said they're going to cooperate

2177
01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:35,920
with the inquiry uh

2178
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:37,839
and they they're going to do what was

2179
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:39,280
mandated by congress so you've got to

2180
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:40,160
look at what

2181
01:07:43,990 --> 01:07:42,400
what does the bill actually ask and

2182
01:07:48,069 --> 01:07:44,000
essentially it's asking for

2183
01:07:51,029 --> 01:07:48,079
details of investigations into into uaps

2184
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:51,039
uh which you know they but they don't

2185
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:51,920
have to give you

2186
01:07:55,270 --> 01:07:53,280
stuff that is classified they could have

2187
01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:55,280
a classified annex which is a data

2188
01:07:59,349 --> 01:07:56,160
repository

2189
01:08:01,430 --> 01:07:59,359
of all the classified stuff so i don't

2190
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:01,440
think that they are

2191
01:08:05,430 --> 01:08:03,680
obligated in any way to give some kind

2192
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:05,440
of huge data dump if that's what eric

2193
01:08:09,510 --> 01:08:07,200
weinstein was saying

2194
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:09,520
i think what we're likely to get is is

2195
01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:10,640
basically a

2196
01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:13,839
an overview of the situation i hope it

2197
01:08:17,669 --> 01:08:14,640
is one

2198
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:17,679
that puts things in correct context and

2199
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:18,319
doesn't

2200
01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:21,359
engage in speculation uh i think it will

2201
01:08:24,630 --> 01:08:22,880
probably talk about the real issues that

2202
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:24,640
we have within identified objects like

2203
01:08:28,789 --> 01:08:25,679
you know drones and

2204
01:08:31,749 --> 01:08:28,799
airspace airspace incursions and pilots

2205
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:31,759
uh not being able to identify things and

2206
01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:32,400
um

2207
01:08:38,149 --> 01:08:35,520
i i do not anticipate

2208
01:08:39,829 --> 01:08:38,159
that things will change very much

2209
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:39,839
because i think what will happen is that

2210
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:40,319
the

2211
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:43,120
ufo fans are going to get angry that not

2212
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:44,640
enough was released

2213
01:08:47,749 --> 01:08:46,319
and i will probably be a bit

2214
01:08:49,510 --> 01:08:47,759
disappointed that they

2215
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:49,520
didn't actually clear things up a bit

2216
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:53,120
more and we'll just go on from there

2217
01:08:56,470 --> 01:08:54,880
yeah so you know i've had on as i said

2218
01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:56,480
uh many different uh

2219
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:59,440
perspectives from perspectives differing

2220
01:09:01,669 --> 01:08:59,839
on

2221
01:09:02,950 --> 01:09:01,679
the properties of bitcoin from michael

2222
01:09:05,110 --> 01:09:02,960
saylor to gold

2223
01:09:07,189 --> 01:09:05,120
on peter schiff from proponents of

2224
01:09:10,309 --> 01:09:07,199
string theory like michio kaku

2225
01:09:11,829 --> 01:09:10,319
to opponents of string theory like avi

2226
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:11,839
loeb who also has

2227
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,679
conjectures about alien techno

2228
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:15,199
signatures and maybe we could talk about

2229
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,319
that for a second

2230
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,880
um ufos are the ultimate form of techno

2231
01:09:22,390 --> 01:09:20,159
signatures right so

2232
01:09:23,669 --> 01:09:22,400
it surprises me that that the foremost

2233
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:23,679
proponents of

2234
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:26,000
techno signatures like avi and like

2235
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:26,960
michio kaku

2236
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,719
who have thought about aliens in great

2237
01:09:31,030 --> 01:09:30,080
detail and discussed that with me on my

2238
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:31,040
podcast

2239
01:09:34,149 --> 01:09:32,640
and i could put links and cards and so

2240
01:09:35,669 --> 01:09:34,159
forth later on um

2241
01:09:37,669 --> 01:09:35,679
but uh but you know they don't seem to

2242
01:09:38,709 --> 01:09:37,679
be advocating that these data really are

2243
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:38,719
substantive

2244
01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:41,759
for the existence of of alien

2245
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:44,000
presence or technology what do you make

2246
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:45,120
of that should that be

2247
01:09:48,630 --> 01:09:46,960
dismissed or could that just be a case

2248
01:09:51,189 --> 01:09:48,640
of well they're not pilots so

2249
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:51,199
we shouldn't trust them well now i mean

2250
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,319
you've got to look at the evidence the

2251
01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:54,080
evidence really isn't indicative of

2252
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:54,960
aliens

2253
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:57,760
uh people are seeing things that you

2254
01:09:59,430 --> 01:09:58,000
know

2255
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:59,440
they can't explain but that doesn't mean

2256
01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:01,280
that they're aliens you know there's a

2257
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,880
multiple multitude of possible

2258
01:10:08,470 --> 01:10:05,280
explanations running all the way from

2259
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:08,480
uh people misperceiving things

2260
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:10,800
uh to various types of natural phenomena

2261
01:10:16,070 --> 01:10:14,480
or things like foreign drones or even

2262
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:16,080
drones from like the kid down the road

2263
01:10:19,590 --> 01:10:17,760
that's flying up over your house

2264
01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:19,600
there's all kinds of explanations that

2265
01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:21,840
are generally a better fit

2266
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:24,320
than the idea of aliens the aliens is a

2267
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:25,679
an extraordinary

2268
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:28,960
explanation for any particular uh given

2269
01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:30,560
case if you take like even the nimitz

2270
01:10:33,430 --> 01:10:31,760
encounter

2271
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:33,440
which is presented as being one of the

2272
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:36,000
best evidence of aliens out there but

2273
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:38,159
the idea that there's no simpler

2274
01:10:41,669 --> 01:10:40,080
explanation than aliens

2275
01:10:43,590 --> 01:10:41,679
it's just it's quite ludicrous really

2276
01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:43,600
there's there's lots of explanations

2277
01:10:45,590 --> 01:10:44,000
yeah

2278
01:10:47,669 --> 01:10:45,600
even though they're perhaps you know a

2279
01:10:50,470 --> 01:10:47,679
bit unlikely some of them

2280
01:10:51,270 --> 01:10:50,480
yeah is alien visitors actually a more

2281
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:51,280
likely thing

2282
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:52,560
than these these other explanations

2283
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:53,760
right i had this debate you know i'm

2284
01:10:56,630 --> 01:10:55,040
being a little bit too provocative

2285
01:10:58,149 --> 01:10:56,640
perhaps but you know there's a

2286
01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:58,159
there's a notion in philosophy called

2287
01:11:01,990 --> 01:11:00,400
abduction and i joke about alien

2288
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:02,000
abduction so abduction is the

2289
01:11:05,430 --> 01:11:03,280
philosophical

2290
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:05,440
reasoning tool of inference to the best

2291
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:06,719
explanation and we use this as a

2292
01:11:08,709 --> 01:11:07,600
scientist

2293
01:11:10,709 --> 01:11:08,719
people in the chat room have been

2294
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:10,719
pointing out that william of ahm

2295
01:11:13,669 --> 01:11:12,000
you know i'm probably saying that too

2296
01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:13,679
much hebrew with the hat i shouldn't be

2297
01:11:16,149 --> 01:11:14,400
doing that

2298
01:11:17,669 --> 01:11:16,159
but uh william of occam you know said

2299
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:17,679
that the simplest explanation is

2300
01:11:20,950 --> 01:11:18,800
probably the best

2301
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,960
so my friend david brin who is a phd

2302
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:23,199
astrophysicist at uc san diego

2303
01:11:27,669 --> 01:11:25,280
renowned science fiction writer as well

2304
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:27,679
sends you his regards uh he's not in the

2305
01:11:30,790 --> 01:11:29,280
chat room as far as i can tell

2306
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:30,800
but he says you know tell mick he's

2307
01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:33,040
doing great uh uh work but he's saying

2308
01:11:36,630 --> 01:11:35,120
also something very important mick he

2309
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:36,640
says mick um

2310
01:11:40,709 --> 01:11:38,480
just remember you don't have to account

2311
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:40,719
for everything you as a debunker

2312
01:11:43,910 --> 01:11:42,080
you know it's sort of said about like

2313
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:43,920
people that work on you know in

2314
01:11:47,189 --> 01:11:46,239
defense you they they have to be right

2315
01:11:49,110 --> 01:11:47,199
every time

2316
01:11:50,149 --> 01:11:49,120
uh but you don't have to be right every

2317
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:50,159
time in other words you don't have to

2318
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:51,440
account for everything

2319
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:53,440
even david brin says even if there are

2320
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:55,280
some actually physical blob effects in

2321
01:11:59,189 --> 01:11:57,040
the atmosphere that emit light

2322
01:12:00,709 --> 01:11:59,199
and swerve and veer in non-newtonian

2323
01:12:03,189 --> 01:12:00,719
waves there can be

2324
01:12:04,950 --> 01:12:03,199
alternative explanations within the laws

2325
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:04,960
of physics as we know it

2326
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:07,120
the purported behavior could be a uh

2327
01:12:11,030 --> 01:12:08,560
quote unquote the same as

2328
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:11,040
a cat laser effect okay he's being

2329
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:12,560
shorthand but in other words there could

2330
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:14,239
be effects like if you say

2331
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,400
if you take a cat laser and you sh and

2332
01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:18,080
you shine it towards proxima centauri

2333
01:12:20,149 --> 01:12:18,880
over there

2334
01:12:22,470 --> 01:12:20,159
and then you turn it around the opposite

2335
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:22,480
direction and shine it towards the virgo

2336
01:12:25,750 --> 01:12:24,239
constellation over there they'll

2337
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:25,760
actually receive these two bursts of

2338
01:12:27,910 --> 01:12:26,159
light

2339
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:27,920
instantaneously you know each one will

2340
01:12:30,229 --> 01:12:29,679
receive it and then somehow they could

2341
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:30,239
reason

2342
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:31,920
oh well they saw at the same time there

2343
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:33,760
must be faster than light travel no we

2344
01:12:36,709 --> 01:12:35,120
just used a cat laser

2345
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:36,719
and there's no there's no need to

2346
01:12:41,189 --> 01:12:38,159
distinguish or to provide

2347
01:12:42,070 --> 01:12:41,199
extra extra einsteinian space-time

2348
01:12:43,350 --> 01:12:42,080
violations

2349
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,360
so in other words he's saying there's a

2350
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,679
million ways he says to cause a physical

2351
01:12:48,630 --> 01:12:47,679
blob in the atmosphere to emit light and

2352
01:12:50,390 --> 01:12:48,640
this is a very

2353
01:12:53,510 --> 01:12:50,400
you know he's a phd theoretical

2354
01:12:55,350 --> 01:12:53,520
astrophysicist caltech and ucsd trained

2355
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:55,360
to emit light and swerve and veer in

2356
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:56,640
non-newtonian ways

2357
01:13:00,070 --> 01:12:58,800
he could do it david brin could do it

2358
01:13:00,870 --> 01:13:00,080
with a half a million dollars worth of

2359
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:00,880
equipment which

2360
01:13:04,149 --> 01:13:02,560
suggests that the fellows responsible

2361
01:13:06,070 --> 01:13:04,159
are um quote

2362
01:13:07,350 --> 01:13:06,080
human so he's basically making this

2363
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:07,360
alien abduction

2364
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:09,120
you know abduction meaning reasoning to

2365
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:10,640
the simplest possible hypothesis which

2366
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:12,080
is what i want my audience is so

2367
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:12,880
brilliant

2368
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:14,480
and i claim you know i've had nine nobel

2369
01:13:17,910 --> 01:13:16,080
prize winners on this audience

2370
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:17,920
uh is the best and brightest and i'm

2371
01:13:20,550 --> 01:13:19,280
gonna you know beg your doll i'm sure

2372
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:20,560
your audience is just as bright

2373
01:13:24,070 --> 01:13:22,320
but i've had nine nobel prize winners on

2374
01:13:26,790 --> 01:13:24,080
this uh uh on the show

2375
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:26,800
more are coming and uh and we like to go

2376
01:13:30,070 --> 01:13:28,800
extremely deep and and the point is we

2377
01:13:32,470 --> 01:13:30,080
take things from a scientific

2378
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:32,480
perspective again nothing would get

2379
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:34,080
i already have tenure you know which is

2380
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:36,080
why i can have people on the show

2381
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:38,560
uh you know that i've had on uh and be

2382
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:40,000
controversial perhaps

2383
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:43,040
uh but uh but the point is the uh

2384
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,199
the the process that i like to engage in

2385
01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:47,040
is to stimulate curiosity it's kind of a

2386
01:13:52,229 --> 01:13:48,880
drug that's very powerful and very

2387
01:13:54,790 --> 01:13:52,239
addictive to me personally but also i i

2388
01:13:56,229 --> 01:13:54,800
i would like nothing more than to me to

2389
01:13:58,149 --> 01:13:56,239
shortcut and hack

2390
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:58,159
the scientific method and know things

2391
01:14:01,110 --> 01:13:59,679
about the future right and when you

2392
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:01,120
wouldn't we all like to know

2393
01:14:06,229 --> 01:14:04,560
the physics of the future we would and

2394
01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:06,239
if aliens arrived you know theoretically

2395
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:07,760
they could give it to us and that is one

2396
01:14:10,470 --> 01:14:09,679
of the great attractions of this the et

2397
01:14:11,910 --> 01:14:10,480
hypothesis

2398
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:11,920
and as you know ties into science

2399
01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:14,640
fiction and popular portrayals

2400
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:17,600
of aliens as they are the the bearers of

2401
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:18,400
gifts

2402
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:21,600
they are going to

2403
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:23,360
basically ascend humanity to the next

2404
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:24,640
level and that's why people are so

2405
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:26,159
interested in that but

2406
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:28,800
you know i think that creates the

2407
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:30,640
willingness to overlook a lot of things

2408
01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:31,360
and

2409
01:14:34,950 --> 01:14:33,360
the willingness to go towards one

2410
01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:34,960
particular explanation

2411
01:14:39,350 --> 01:14:36,960
when there are other explanations which

2412
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:39,360
are perhaps less palatable

2413
01:14:42,550 --> 01:14:40,880
and in some ways a little bit more

2414
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,560
complicated because you could actually

2415
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:44,640
you know think about uh them rather than

2416
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:46,080
just being the simple

2417
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:49,360
aliens uh that that actually make a lot

2418
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:50,719
more sense and would have made more

2419
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:52,560
sense to to william a bockham

2420
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:56,080
and i actually i don't i use a

2421
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:58,560
a reasoning technique for figuring

2422
01:15:03,110 --> 01:14:59,840
things out which i call

2423
01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,120
or comic ranking uh which is

2424
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:05,280
taking all positive all possible

2425
01:15:07,669 --> 01:15:06,239
hypotheses

2426
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:07,679
everything that has been suggested and

2427
01:15:11,830 --> 01:15:09,280
everything i can think of

2428
01:15:12,790 --> 01:15:11,840
and putting them into a list and then

2429
01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:12,800
ranking them

2430
01:15:17,830 --> 01:15:15,760
by which seems the most likely basically

2431
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:17,840
it's a huge heuristic you know you you

2432
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:18,159
see

2433
01:15:23,990 --> 01:15:21,360
based on the evidence

2434
01:15:25,510 --> 01:15:24,000
uh if this was to go up the list a bit

2435
01:15:27,350 --> 01:15:25,520
what would need to happen for this to go

2436
01:15:28,709 --> 01:15:27,360
up to the list so i have these lists of

2437
01:15:30,790 --> 01:15:28,719
things and so used to

2438
01:15:32,870 --> 01:15:30,800
start at the top like uh with optical

2439
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:32,880
illusions or balloons or

2440
01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:36,960
another plane or atmospheric effects or

2441
01:15:42,149 --> 01:15:40,000
cgi or the guy made a mistake it was all

2442
01:15:44,470 --> 01:15:42,159
a dream or he was lying and

2443
01:15:46,229 --> 01:15:44,480
aliens did it or it's a glitch in the

2444
01:15:46,709 --> 01:15:46,239
matrix it's part of the simulation so

2445
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,719
you have

2446
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,400
all the hypotheses and you try to figure

2447
01:15:51,990 --> 01:15:50,080
out which one of them

2448
01:15:53,750 --> 01:15:52,000
is at the top but you don't just focus

2449
01:15:55,110 --> 01:15:53,760
on that one you keep thinking about the

2450
01:15:56,709 --> 01:15:55,120
other things on the list as well because

2451
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:56,719
quite often you have one two or three

2452
01:15:59,350 --> 01:15:57,360
things

2453
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:59,360
near the top and one of them isn't a

2454
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:00,480
clear winner

2455
01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:03,760
and i think that's a mistake

2456
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:07,199
is to just go with one hypothesis

2457
01:16:10,229 --> 01:16:09,440
so i'd encourage people to try this out

2458
01:16:14,070 --> 01:16:10,239
make a list

2459
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:14,080
them a rough ranking you can give them a

2460
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:15,679
percentage as to how likely you think it

2461
01:16:18,550 --> 01:16:16,640
is to correct and just

2462
01:16:20,149 --> 01:16:18,560
sort them into order and then as new

2463
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:20,159
information arises

2464
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:21,520
you take them and you change the order

2465
01:16:24,790 --> 01:16:23,120
and new ones might bubble to the top and

2466
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:24,800
things might fall to the bottom but you

2467
01:16:27,110 --> 01:16:25,120
know

2468
01:16:29,270 --> 01:16:27,120
you always keep things open as

2469
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:29,280
possibilities

2470
01:16:32,229 --> 01:16:30,800
so we're going to wrap up in the next

2471
01:16:33,430 --> 01:16:32,239
few minutes we'll take on one or two

2472
01:16:37,030 --> 01:16:33,440
more questions

2473
01:16:37,669 --> 01:16:37,040
we have one uh here that is a question

2474
01:16:39,510 --> 01:16:37,679
about

2475
01:16:40,870 --> 01:16:39,520
whether or not there have been any kind

2476
01:16:43,590 --> 01:16:40,880
of multi-sensor

2477
01:16:45,189 --> 01:16:43,600
uap with a radar signature been verified

2478
01:16:47,590 --> 01:16:45,199
to go into the ocean

2479
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:47,600
or has that only been claimed via navy

2480
01:16:50,070 --> 01:16:48,239
witnesses

2481
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:50,080
in other words has there been multiple

2482
01:16:55,350 --> 01:16:51,679
sonar plus radar

2483
01:16:57,750 --> 01:16:55,360
confirmation or has that only been via

2484
01:16:59,189 --> 01:16:57,760
the eyewitness data this is something

2485
01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:59,199
that you know people have claimed a few

2486
01:17:01,590 --> 01:16:59,920
times that

2487
01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:01,600
there's this one yeah there's these five

2488
01:17:06,310 --> 01:17:03,360
observables of ufos that

2489
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:06,320
uh people say are our signatures of of

2490
01:17:08,950 --> 01:17:08,159
ufos being something other than human

2491
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:08,960
technology and

2492
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,960
and one of them is transmedium travel

2493
01:17:14,470 --> 01:17:12,640
which is something that flies in

2494
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:14,480
more or less equal speed through the air

2495
01:17:17,110 --> 01:17:16,239
and through the water and possibly space

2496
01:17:19,510 --> 01:17:17,120
too

2497
01:17:20,790 --> 01:17:19,520
uh and people have claimed that this has

2498
01:17:22,310 --> 01:17:20,800
happened that people have claimed that

2499
01:17:23,669 --> 01:17:22,320
there's radar data and then there's

2500
01:17:25,669 --> 01:17:23,679
sonar data but

2501
01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:25,679
there's this there's no real good

2502
01:17:28,470 --> 01:17:27,199
examples of this if you ask people to

2503
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:28,480
point them out there's not

2504
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:30,960
actually anything where you have any

2505
01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:31,840
kind of

2506
01:17:35,189 --> 01:17:33,920
continuous chain of evidence from the

2507
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:35,199
from the radar to

2508
01:17:41,910 --> 01:17:38,400
to the sonar uh there was a recent case

2509
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:41,920
where a video was released of

2510
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:44,239
a sphere descending towards the horizon

2511
01:17:47,350 --> 01:17:45,600
and then a

2512
01:17:49,590 --> 01:17:47,360
video of a radar screen was released

2513
01:17:52,229 --> 01:17:49,600
which shows some targets on the radar

2514
01:17:53,669 --> 01:17:52,239
appearing to disappear uh off off the

2515
01:17:54,550 --> 01:17:53,679
screen which they did disappear off the

2516
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:54,560
screen like they just

2517
01:17:58,310 --> 01:17:56,480
blinked out of existence and people kind

2518
01:17:59,669 --> 01:17:58,320
of said that is uh

2519
01:18:01,030 --> 01:17:59,679
evidence that something was going

2520
01:18:01,669 --> 01:18:01,040
underwater but it could equally have

2521
01:18:04,390 --> 01:18:01,679
been

2522
01:18:05,830 --> 01:18:04,400
uh the object simply going out of the

2523
01:18:07,669 --> 01:18:05,840
radar scan volume because it was a

2524
01:18:08,870 --> 01:18:07,679
surface scanning radar not actually

2525
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:08,880
something designed to

2526
01:18:11,990 --> 01:18:11,040
uh scan things up in the sky so you know

2527
01:18:15,350 --> 01:18:12,000
shorthand sir

2528
01:18:20,229 --> 01:18:18,470
great um so this has been so much fun

2529
01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:20,239
uh people are asking you know will you

2530
01:18:24,229 --> 01:18:22,800
debate uh commander fravor

2531
01:18:26,229 --> 01:18:24,239
i'm gonna try to make that i'm gonna

2532
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:26,239
make that happen if i can

2533
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:27,600
first i'm going to try to have a

2534
01:18:32,310 --> 01:18:29,440
conversation not a debate

2535
01:18:34,310 --> 01:18:32,320
i agree with my past guests lord martin

2536
01:18:36,229 --> 01:18:34,320
reese the astronomer royal

2537
01:18:37,750 --> 01:18:36,239
most debate is pointless but we should

2538
01:18:39,910 --> 01:18:37,760
debate with love

2539
01:18:41,430 --> 01:18:39,920
we should use occam's razor every now

2540
01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:41,440
and then to get a close shave

2541
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:44,320
uh but we should do so with comity and

2542
01:18:47,910 --> 01:18:45,840
sometimes a little comedy

2543
01:18:50,149 --> 01:18:47,920
uh throw in a little bit of levity

2544
01:18:52,709 --> 01:18:50,159
shouldn't always be so super serious

2545
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:52,719
um and uh and i really have enjoyed this

2546
01:18:56,950 --> 01:18:54,480
i want to ask people again

2547
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:56,960
uh please do subscribe to mick west's

2548
01:19:00,550 --> 01:18:57,520
channel

2549
01:19:02,149 --> 01:19:00,560
and follow him he is doing yeoman's work

2550
01:19:03,830 --> 01:19:02,159
i don't think you're getting uh

2551
01:19:05,990 --> 01:19:03,840
compensated you know we

2552
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:06,000
youtubers don't make that much money for

2553
01:19:08,870 --> 01:19:08,159
uh views and likes and subscribes but

2554
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:08,880
please do

2555
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:10,880
like comment and subscribe because it

2556
01:19:14,790 --> 01:19:12,719
does tell the algorithm there

2557
01:19:15,990 --> 01:19:14,800
are algorithms of advanced artificial

2558
01:19:17,750 --> 01:19:16,000
intelligence that do

2559
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:17,760
kind of control our lives at least as

2560
01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:20,080
youtubers so help us out if you can

2561
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:22,480
um so mick uh please uh please i wish

2562
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:23,840
you great success i hope you'll come

2563
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:26,480
back tomorrow i do have on seth shostak

2564
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:28,560
uh whose book confessions of an alien

2565
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:31,199
hunter is a wonderful book uh from an

2566
01:19:34,790 --> 01:19:33,120
astronomer who himself has searched for

2567
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:34,800
aliens who would love nothing better

2568
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:36,000
than aliens to be real

2569
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:38,480
i'm going to get him to ca to comment on

2570
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:39,520
some of the work that you've done and

2571
01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:40,800
some of the work that

2572
01:19:45,750 --> 01:19:43,840
we are involved with um in in

2573
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:45,760
microwave and radio astronomy and also

2574
01:19:49,430 --> 01:19:47,440
physics of the future

2575
01:19:50,950 --> 01:19:49,440
and uh and then later i do hope to have

2576
01:19:52,950 --> 01:19:50,960
on some of these wonderful

2577
01:19:54,070 --> 01:19:52,960
very heroic patriotic pilots i've been

2578
01:19:56,709 --> 01:19:54,080
in contact with

2579
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:56,719
two of them and and hopefully i i will

2580
01:19:59,750 --> 01:19:57,360
be able to get

2581
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,760
at least one or maybe two of the pilots

2582
01:20:03,590 --> 01:20:01,440
who are up close and personal

2583
01:20:05,350 --> 01:20:03,600
on various occasions i do think that

2584
01:20:07,590 --> 01:20:05,360
they have been a lovely

2585
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,600
you know they've done incredible work um

2586
01:20:11,590 --> 01:20:09,360
and and i think they should be

2587
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:11,600
uh they should be part of all the all

2588
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:12,960
the conversation and

2589
01:20:15,830 --> 01:20:14,239
i don't think they have anything to gain

2590
01:20:17,350 --> 01:20:15,840
either in fact i think that they they

2591
01:20:19,350 --> 01:20:17,360
probably suffered a lot too for

2592
01:20:21,110 --> 01:20:19,360
everything that they've done and they

2593
01:20:23,830 --> 01:20:21,120
should not because i think that they

2594
01:20:25,189 --> 01:20:23,840
are heroes as i know you do too mick so

2595
01:20:26,310 --> 01:20:25,199
i want to thank you mick um

2596
01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:26,320
for everything you do i want to

2597
01:20:30,070 --> 01:20:28,239
recommend your book again and your

2598
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:30,080
youtube channel so please everybody

2599
01:20:33,990 --> 01:20:32,480
stay tuned for more episodes of into the

2600
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:34,000
impossible tomorrow with dr brian

2601
01:20:37,510 --> 01:20:34,719
keating

2602
01:20:38,790 --> 01:20:37,520
and for now signing off and i encourage

2603
01:20:41,430 --> 01:20:38,800
you all to keep

2604
01:20:42,629 --> 01:20:41,440
watching the skies and watching the two

2605
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:42,639
youtube channels

2606
01:20:49,510 --> 01:20:44,320
good night everybody thank you so much

2607
01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:52,229
any sufficient advanced technology is

2608
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:00,719
indistinguishable from magic